Button vs. BB, akward stacksize for shoving

[memento_mori]

No reads on villian, what's your standard line here?

Full Tilt Poker, NL Hold'em Tournament, 250/500 Blinds, 50 Ante, 7 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

CO: 6,754
BTN: 22,657
Hero (SB): 16,810
BB: 6,075
UTG: 14,935
UTG+1: 19,325
MP: 9,765

Pre-Flop: (850) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
5 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to 1,300</font>, <font color="red">Hero ???

[bruno_pro]

With these stacks and no read, I'd probably call and see a flop, altough i think foldind is not wrong as well

[levAA]

Reraise - I'd make it about 6k.

Calling OOP with 66 is not a good move imo - what is our plan on the flop with these stack sizes, if we don't hit the set, what will we do if BB shoves...

[Proofrock]

[ QUOTE ]
Reraise - I'd make it about 6k.

Calling OOP with 66 is not a good move imo - what is our plan on the flop with these stack sizes, if we don't hit the set, what will we do if BB shoves...

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't like 3-betting to t6000 here.

[levAA]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Reraise - I'd make it about 6k.

Calling OOP with 66 is not a good move imo - what is our plan on the flop with these stack sizes, if we don't hit the set, what will we do if BB shoves...

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't like 3-betting to t6000 here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you have to tell us why you don't like it - thats the idea behind this forum.

[Proofrock]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Reraise - I'd make it about 6k.

Calling OOP with 66 is not a good move imo - what is our plan on the flop with these stack sizes, if we don't hit the set, what will we do if BB shoves...

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't like 3-betting to t6000 here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you have to tell us why you don't like it - thats the idea behind this forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it leaves us getting better than 2 to 1 to call a shove from Button vs. a range that we're just barely a 2 to 1 dog against so it has approximately the same risk/reward as a shove.

Put another way, I think that by 3-betting to 6000 we're both committing ourselves to calling a shove while allowing Villain to play perfectly and restricting both Villain's shoving and calling range to one that beats us.

Also, 3betting doesn't help us with any of the other problems you brought up. If Hero just calls and BB shoves, Hero calls if Button folds and folds otherwise. If we call and don't hit our set, we can play poker based on board texture ... if we 3-bet and get flat-called we're shoving the flop and praying for a fold.

I should say, I think this is a tough spot and all of our options are tough. We barely have set odds to flat-call, our stack is too big to 3bet-shove but too small to 3bet/fold. I'd probably call with antes and fold without them, but I'm a nit who sucks at poker.

[levAA]

[ QUOTE ]
but I'm a nit who sucks at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol - as we all know the contrary is the case.

The idea behind the 6k raise was a stop'n'go, but we are still able to fold to a button's 4-bet.

I agree that the stack-sizes make it most complicated here - I think we are too deep to shove preflop, but we should be def. ahead of button's range so I think a reraise is the right move.

But as you said the bet-size might be a problem.

[bruno_pro]

i agree that we're probably ahead of button's range (altough we have no read)... the problem with the re-raise is that if he calls we're playing a gigantic pot out of position with a very marginal hand.. and if he pushes, oh well, i guess we just have to muck.. either result would make me want to puke.. so i'd rather keep the pot small and things simple.. play for set value and maybe try something depending on board texture and his betting on flop..

I think the answer would be in the question.. does he fold enough to a re-raise pre-flop instead of flat calling or pushing to make re-raising a better option? I don't really know.. but, in doubt, as I said, i prefer to keep things simple.. well, just my two cents..

Edit: If I re-raise, it'd be ~ 4k

[TheFoxNL]

[ QUOTE ]

ol - as we all know the contrary is the case.

The idea behind the 6k raise was a stop'n'go, but we are still able to fold to a button's 4-bet.

I agree that the stack-sizes make it most complicated here - I think we are too deep to shove preflop, but we should be def. ahead of button's range so I think a reraise is the right move.

[/ QUOTE ]

[hasuuser]

If you 3-bet you have to call a shove, unless button is a huge nit.