[150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb's Deep

[cs3]

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If you don't want to stack off with middle set vs. a pre-flop raiser then don't call preflop. No, really. You're going to flop an A,Q, or K on a pretty significant percentage of flops that have an 8 on them, and in any case villain has about 20% equity on all those flops you have a set on



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c'mon bilbo, you know thats not really a good argument. were never planning to stack an over pair for 500bb's. whats wrong with, say, trying to play a pot bewteen 2-300 BB's? you know as well as i do that at some point any hand that is not the absolute nuts needs to go into pot control mode.... i guess a good question is, at what point does that take place with mid set?

[Keyser.]

bilbo, your points in this thread are terrible but it is Friday and I want to go out.
edit: I reread your posts and not all are bad, I guess I just disagree with you saying it's not sick which doesn't matter so who cares.

ahhh i can't help myself

"Just fold 88 preflop if you're gonna fold here"

wtf there are many situations where you win 100-200 bbs vs. a villain with AA-TT or whatever, or where you stack another villain who jut has 200bbs. like, what are you even talking about? all you're basically saying is this isn't sick, which is irrelevant for one (like ok you think this hand does not fit into a definition of the word "sick" who cares).

edit 2: remove HU for rollz challenge :-)

[Keyser.]

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It's absolutely true that villain NEVER has AK.


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Opinions != facts. We might be wrong, you might be wrong, but just because you feel this way and put it in ALL CAPS doesn't make it fact.

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the actual villain in the hand has posted and said he never has AK.

[nazahl]

there is a lot of retarded in this thread

[shpanko]

I'd like to state that I agree with everything Keyser has said in this thread. I think a case can be made for folding the turn against this particular villain, but agree that if we call the turn it's because we think he's value betting worse made hands.

I disagree with some of the things Ike and Bilbo have said. Specifically the statement "lol this isn't that sick," since for one it doesn't matter if you think it's sick or not, and two, wtf yes is is sick you psycho.

I think a lot of what do do on the turn is consider whether or not this particular villain is good at playing deep or not. If he really isn't then I can see AK being in his turn 3-betting range. If he is then he's prob taking a pot control line with AK and maybe even 44 since you guys are ridiculously deep and your turn raise screams strength.

[Dr_Doctr]

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The fact that you are 500BBs deep is pretty irrelevant.

If you don't want to stack off with middle set vs. a pre-flop raiser then don't call preflop. No, really.

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This is just clearly wrong. Say we're sitting a million deep at 1-2 and I call a $2 raise preflop with 88. I flop middle set and there's unbelievable action. Oh man this is so sick! I flopped middle set - guess I should have folded preflop if I don't want to stack off for 1M bbs now amirite?

[nazahl]

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The fact that you are 500BBs deep is pretty irrelevant.

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yeah okay

[Benzooor]

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It's absolutely true that villain NEVER has AK.


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Opinions != facts. We might be wrong, you might be wrong, but just because you feel this way and put it in ALL CAPS doesn't make it fact.

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However, even after the turn call, I don't know if villain open shoves 44 in this spot.

If I was in villains spot with 44 i'm definitely c/c rather than open shoving.


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Then you are a fish. If you have 44 here, and check the river after 3-betting the turn, what's villain going to bluff with? Name a 2-pair hand that villain does not decide to check behind with while shouting "OH THANK [censored] GOD HE CHECKED THE RIVER!". Keep in mind that villian really never has AK given the pre-flop action.

If you check the river with 44 and villain bets after that action, you're smoke.

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I rescinded this statement to previous arguments for said reasons.

[nath]

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The fact that you are 500BBs deep is pretty irrelevant.

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yeah okay

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yeah jesus christ bilbo you are spouting nonsense. at what stack depth does not having the nuts become relevant to you?

[holdme]

okay, we're facing the turn riase. let's say 44 is in villain's range. villain then has aa, kk, or 44. i've heard several times in this thread:
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heck my edit. if you, in villains shoes, think 44 is good enough to value3bet because we have like AK or A8 and call with that, then you have to shove the river because AK or A8 WILL NOT FOLD but will check behind

assuming two semi-decent players, ranges don't change between the turn and the river (barring a v v v v unlikely bluff 3bet on the turn from villain)

for villain: turn 3bet range = river shove range
for hero: turn 3bet call range = river call range

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which means for all intensive purposes, villains turn 3bet=shove. hero has about 660 behind. pretend villain shoved. there is about 940 in the pot, meaning hero is getting <1.5:1 on a call with 33% equity (we are ahead of 44, behind aa and kk) versus hero's range. this makes it an easy fold on the turn.

edit: i just read danibus' post. he expects that op would 3bet ak pf. this makes it an easier fold because villain would not vbet 44 if ak is not in hero's range.