Is limit or no limit holdem more safer to play?

[dynacraze]

I put this thread in this forum because i am just thinking about playing small stakes holdem instead of no limit small stakes.

I'm a 50NL player on full tilt and pokerstars but pretty much started online poker 2 years ago. I guess I am not really a beginner but this would serve as a beginner question. I made most of my money bonuswhoring with those 10x bonuses etc while playing either 50NL or 1/2 fixed limit to clear it.

I only play 50NL cash games now but the games have been so tight. I have read books like small stakes holdem, hoh1 and NLTAP. However, i don't ever think that i will ever be a good no limit player because i am not really a deep thinker. Whenever i am in a big pot, i do get nervous either because i have a tough decision like knowing if my overpair is good OR when i get c/r in those marginal spots. Then i tried to play like a nit, set mining but that didn't work out too well.

I remember watching Rounders and Matt Damon said that some people just can't play no limit holdem because one wrong decision cause you to lose everything which is why so many pros refuse to play no limit. I am an ABC player so if i play a poker game against thinking no limit players, I will be crushed no matter what. I also hate losing 2 buyins because that really messes up my day when i have an overpair to someones set or i have a smaller boat or something to that regard. I am talking about full ring of course.

In limit, i only played 1/2 full ring. It gets frustrating sometimes because of the suckouts when others chase and it gets worst as time goes by. However, the only thing i like about limit holdem is that you can't lose your entire buyin in one hand. Say you buy in 100 into a 1/2 limit game, there isn't one decision you have to face where you have to put all your chips in on a decision that is very hard.

I guess a good majority of you guys understand what I am saying here about my limit game and no limit game. I tried to do good in limit then quit and jumped to no limit. Then i kept switching back and forth and well you get the story. But now i really feel limit holdem poker is more for me because I rather get crushed for one bet at a time rather than as a whole buyin. I know that one mistake takes one bet away from me whereas no limit i can lose it all or miss out on a decision b/c i got bluffed.

Based on what I said here, am I just a limit kind of person than a no limit player? Just so summarize again, I don't like playing big pots unless i hold a very strong hand and most of the time in no limit, i cant really put my opponent on a hand that well. Limit is more straightforward.

However, i was told limit has more downswings and you may feel those 300BB's downswings. However, arent those 300BB's downswings going to take a lot of hands to happen? I mean, i could play 50NL and have a 300BB downswing in 10 minutes.

Your thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Xhad]

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I don't like playing big pots unless i hold a very strong hand and most of the time in no limit, i cant really put my opponent on a hand that well. Limit is more straightforward.

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This is a really really bad reason to play limit, especially shorthanded. The fact that bets are so small compared to the pot means there will be a lot of light betting and raising going on (frequently correctly). In the middle of typing this post I just called down a flop c/r + turn/river bets with AK UI no draw and was right. Then after I finished that sentence I called a turn c/r with AJ ui and called the river and was right again.

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However, i was told limit has more downswings and you may feel those 300BB's downswings. However, arent those 300BB's downswings going to take a lot of hands to happen? I mean, i could play 50NL and have a 300BB downswing in 10 minutes.

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Personal taste. Some people think "at least NL gets it overwith while limit drags it out over several months."

[Hielko]

If you can't win at 50NL you probably can't win at micro stakes limit. Limit has a lower risk (so 'safer' to play), but you also have a smaller edge and less fish. Limit is about smaller edges so you get a lot more difficult decisions, altough they will never be about your stack. Variance is relativly higher in limit because of your small edge and loosing 2 buyins are more in a day is very very standard in limit. You just don't lose them in two hands.

[dynacraze]

Yes, i know the edge in limit is less but the difficult decisions will never be for my whole stack which is why i kind of like limit.

How many is 2 buyins in limit poker?

Also, i am the kind of person that goes tilt when i lose 2 buyins in 5 minutes in no limit holdem. But like the poster before you said, limit holdem drags the pain along assuming your losing. I don't know about you guys but if i were to lose, i kind of prefer losing the way you lose in limit than no limit.

Can you understand my logic? Also, 50NL has gotten real tight on full tilt and even posters here say so. So I don't think using 50NL is really a good example right given the fact that the games are real rocky? It's specifically 50NL that is said to be very hard to beat now in no limit.

I also remmebered i lost about 80BB in limit in one day and was so frustrated that i said i will never play limit again because it is like losing in a slow painful way. Yet, when i play no limit, i hate a decision where its for all of my chips and i do not know where i stand. I just know the benefits of limit is that this will cost you 2 or 3 bets but they do add up, however, they don't hurt you in 1 hand.

[Hielko]

dynacraze: I consider 25BB a limit buyin.

Also when you think 50NL has gotting really tight: you are going to find out that beating 50NL is really easy compared to 2/4 FR limit, atleast that's my opinion. Also it's a lot easier to beat tight players in no-limit then in limit.

Perhaps limit is a more suitable game for you (it is for me). But if you stop playing no-limit because you think 'you will be crushed no matter what' you don't have the right reason to play limit.

[dynacraze]

Well in 50NL, i play middle size pots with TPTK and try to play huge pots when i hit sets, straights, and flushes. The problem for me is that when i have Aces or Kings OOP, usually i have to fold to a raise on the flop b/c the person i am playing is a set miner. Yet, when i dont think they have a set, and a put in a reraise, they reraise me back. Basically, in no limit, position is the most important thing there is because you can control the pot size which is why i hate playing hands OOP but also hate it when 1 mistake cost my entire stack.

I mean i can tilt in limit games but i know it isn't going to destroy me like it does in no limit.

What is your reason for playing limit then?

[KitCloudkicker]

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What is your reason for playing limit then?

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i only play live, fwiw:

-it pays my rent.

-it gives me free alcohol (so does nl i guess, but i cant drink and play nl for some reason).

-unlike when i've played live nl, it tends to promote social interaction. there arent staredowns and other such bs in fixed limit games.

-im just plain much better at limit than nl.

-finally, 2 naughty things i like about limit poker. ill prob get bashed for this by some nits on here but whatever.

1) i can suckout more. sucking out is fun and is often correct in limit.
2) (related to #1) i can raise a draw more often. raising draws is fun. and also usually correct.

basically, IMO limit poker is more of a "gambling" game, and promotes more of a fun social atmosphere than nl. i like making money at it, but i like having fun just as much. during most of my limited forays into live nl play (small sample size i know), i've found it to be boring and unfriendly compared to limit.

actually, this gives me an idea for a thread. thanks

[BigBadBabar]

i detect a contradiction/problem:

you don't like to play nl, because of losing big pots/putting your whole stack at risk

you don't like playing limit, because you lose small amounts over and over?

does not compute [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[dynacraze]

Well not exactly. I meant i dont like playing no limit for those above reasons. BUT, i love playing nl when i hit a set to my opponenets overpair or TPTK and they think they have the nuts.

I don't like playing limit somethings because if i lose, i lose over and over again but its not like 1 chunk in one hand. BUT, i love playing limit because i will never be put into a BIG decision where all my chips are put at risk.

[Harv72b]

Your psychology matters. If you just can't handle the swings that sometimes occur in NL, then you shouldn't be playing the game. That's whether the swings themselves mess you up or just the thought that they could occur.

However, you need to appreciate a few things before you go switching over to limit:

1) Online limit games are even tighter then their NL counterparts these days, at least on average. There are more than a few long-time limit players who are testing the waters in NL for exactly that reason.

2) An expert limit player enjoys a smaller edge against his opponents than does an expert NL player. This is simply because your opponents can (and will) make much bigger individual mistakes in NL than in LHE.

3) Limit is actually a higher variance game than NL, at least for a good player. Not in terms of a single hand, but over longer sample sizes & in the fabled "long run". You can very rarely deny your opponents the proper odds to chase down good draws, and the same will be true for you when you're the one holding an OESD or 4-flush...the aggregate of all those bets made (or called) against draws that come in or with draws that miss, and of course the pot odds which often mandate making that river call when the draw does hit, mean that you're going to experience more swings in limit.

You could theoretically lose 300 BBs in 10 minutes of NL, true. I'm sure that if you're playing enough tables it's theoretically possible in limit as well. You need to appreciate, however, just how difficult it can be on your psyche when you're in the middle of a 300 BB downswing that's lasted for nearly a month (or longer); it can & often does affect your play, and if you play often enough, your life outside of poker as well.

If you want to make the switch, or at least to give it a shot, by all means do. Just make sure that you understand what you're getting yourself into before you make that leap. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]