3/6 - Flopped OESD, Comments on my play

[Popped Rod]

Second hand of a new 3/6 table in my local B&M. Two new players filled some empty seats in middle position and post, so the pot already has dead money. We are nine handed.

Hero is on the button with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Preflop:UTG calls, UTG+1 2 bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

(How was the call PF. I'm on the button with suited broadway but KJ is kinda marginal. I was thinking pot odds here.)

Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players, 14 SBs)

SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 2 bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 caps, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Okay, I've got an OESD on a rainbow board. I 3-bet the turn to build the pot and to set up a free card on the turn. Was that too laggy? Should I have smoothcalled since UTG+1 aggressive PF and on the Flop?

Turn: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players, 17 BBs)

UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

I think UTG+1 was hoping I would bet so he could check-raise. MP2 was thinking about betting the turn but I started reaching for chips as if I was going to re-raise and he chickened out. I tap the table with the chips in my hand. I got my free card.

River: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players, 17 BBs)

UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, 2 folds, Hero 2-bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Results in white below:

<font color="white"> I quickly turn over the nut straight, UTG mucks, and UTG+1 turns over pockets queens for the flopped set and is pissed. Hero wins 24 BBs </font>

Comments on all streets appreciated.

[TripleH68]

Fine. Good. Well Done. Etc.

[fishyak]

I predict a split of opinions from other posters about a PF raise. Playing just the 2nd hand at the table, I would probably just call until I had a better feel for the table.

I like the flop 3 bet.

Calvary comes to the rescue in the final reel - sweet.

[DOMIT]

With how much we could tell that UTG+1 liked his hand, I don't think your 3-bet did anything but define your hand, epec'ly after your turn check (you still paid the same amount.. it wasn't a free card.. since UTG+1 R'd preflop AND on the flop, you could pretty well be sure that he was going to cap--at least in my mind).

IMHO, by _not_ defining your hand as you did on the turn, UTG+1 might well have kept on rolling/betting both turn and river, where you could raise him and earn more bets.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
(How was the call PF. I'm on the button with suited broadway but KJ is kinda marginal. I was thinking pot odds here.)


[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO

Oh yeah, I fold KJs on the button all the time in an unraised 100 way pot.

Preflop, please raise, this is such a huge multi way hand, on the button, with 100 limpers, pretty please raise.

Flop, I like, turn, good check, river, nice.

Please don't ever fold KJs preflop if it's unraised.

[foureightsuited]

[ QUOTE ]
With how much we could tell that UTG+1 liked his hand, I don't think your 3-bet did anything but define your hand, epec'ly after your turn check (you still paid the same amount.. it wasn't a free card.. since UTG+1 R'd preflop AND on the flop, you could pretty well be sure that he was going to cap--at least in my mind).


[/ QUOTE ]

you want him to cap the flop multiway, youve got the equity on the flop. Also, it does matter the order you put the bets in the sense that you are collecting the flop equity when your edge is bigger and putting less bets in when you equity drops on the turn. You are not necessarily trying for the free card so much as you are collecting the equity, it just happened to be a nice bonus.

i would raise preflop, especially with all the dead money and you being on the button, but play the rest of the hand the same as you. Id probably only bet the turn if you hit the straight or if you picked up a flush draw.

[DOMIT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With how much we could tell that UTG+1 liked his hand, I don't think your 3-bet did anything but define your hand, epec'ly after your turn check (you still paid the same amount.. it wasn't a free card.. since UTG+1 R'd preflop AND on the flop, you could pretty well be sure that he was going to cap--at least in my mind).


[/ QUOTE ]

you want him to cap the flop multiway, youve got the equity on the flop. Also, it does matter the order you put the bets in the sense that you are collecting the flop equity when your edge is bigger and putting less bets in when you equity drops on the turn. You are not necessarily trying for the free card so much as you are collecting the equity, it just happened to be a nice bonus.

i would raise preflop, especially with all the dead money and you being on the button, but play the rest of the hand the same as you. Id probably only bet the turn if you hit the straight or if you picked up a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, putting it that way, I understand more now why a raise on the flop is good.. I just don't like defining my hand to others; allowing them to fold correctly when I get there (I know that the QQ's won't fold, but others inbetween will).

I'm unsure that people replying to this thread have seen that UTG+1 DID in fact raise preflop. Yes, on the button, with only limpers, I can see a raise with KJs being positive; but _after_ there has been a raise preflop? That's one of the reasons that the OP asked about calling with the hand in the first place (I think given the amount of callers, that it's a no brainer, yes, call with how many people are in for the two bets). However, others are advocating to raise.. do they realise that it would make it a 3-bet, openning the door for a cap preflop?

[foureightsuited]

[ QUOTE ]

OK, putting it that way, I understand more now why a raise on the flop is good.. I just don't like defining my hand to others; allowing them to fold correctly when I get there (I know that the QQ's won't fold, but others inbetween will).

I'm unsure that people replying to this thread have seen that UTG+1 DID in fact raise preflop. Yes, on the button, with only limpers, I can see a raise with KJs being positive; but _after_ there has been a raise preflop? That's one of the reasons that the OP asked about calling with the hand in the first place (I think given the amount of callers, that it's a no brainer, yes, call with how many people are in for the two bets). However, others are advocating to raise.. do they realise that it would make it a 3-bet, openning the door for a cap preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]


$3/6 B&amp;M (think .5/1 online)
KJs is the nuts especially 6 way or more
equity &gt;&gt; others reading your hand correctly (they will still call regardless)

[MainEvent]

I missed it the first time I read the OP's detailing of the hand, but UTG + 1 did raise preflop. So Hero called a raise PF on the button.

I don't see how raising the flop defines your hand. And in most cases it won't matter. In my experience, people tend not to fear (or perhaps even see) straight draws that come in as much as they fear flush draws that complete. Hero could be raising any number of hands here. Top pair, lower set, air in a big pot...

[DOMIT]

Yeah, I will say that it was obvious that he missed it on the flop, as he was trying for a check-raise on the turn (idiot that he was, as _he_ was the one that capped the flop LOL). However, my point was that going for the free-card allowed the river to be checked to Hero that finally got there. Why else would the QQ's check the river, but that he saw the straight get there?

That aside, I do understand the extra EV/equity, but if you play in a locals casino as I do, once I bet this river, I get folds by everyone but the QQ. However, if I was to just call the flop, I probably would get calls/even-bets from 2pr, should the QQ check the river.

I just have had to adapt my play a bit for the local's room, where it's mostly regulars (I just repeated myself didn't I -grin-).

I completely agree, that if I was at MGM where it's mostly tourists (or reasonable facsimile), this play would work just fine.

In other words, nevermind. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]