France's Election is Today

[clowntable]

[ QUOTE ]
Their politics wasn't originally a failure, they have just failed to reform unlike many other countries. Thus they have ended up in a situation where the politics is out of touch with the current reality. Other European countries saw the warning signs, but i.e. France and Germany just ran straight into them. In both countries they still lack public awareness of the magnitude of the problems and thus politicians calling for big changes aren't getting elected. Their culture is not willing to take impulses from other cultures, so the "enligthment" is a slow process.

In the US you are in the beginning of the same process, unsustainable fiscal and foreign policy out of touch with current reality and unwillingness to take impulses from abroad, heading into the same trap. Your mentality is more similar than it is different. So I advice not to mock them as you will end up with a foot in your own mouth.

[/ QUOTE ]
I tend to disagree. France and Germany are extremly different from what happened over tha last years.
In Germany, costs of reuniting have hindered the country a lot during a period when other European countries invested in improvements of all kinds.
France while they did a lot of things wrong at least managed to get incentives for reproduction out and thus they won't face the massive overaging as other European countries (i.e. Germany)

p.s.: I'm German and live/work in France so I assume I have a pretty good picture of what's going on.

[clowntable]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
First round of elections only. IT will be Sarkowshy vs Royale, I hope, in the run-off!

I hope Le Pen doesn't get a guernsey this time!

[/ QUOTE ]

Even though democracy is ridiculous, I think that this system (where a candidate must win by a true majority) is better than our system. The guarantee of popular-ish candidates making the final running makes it much more sensible to vote for a third party candidate (since if they don't win, it's not going to change the outcome in a negative fashion, i.e. voting green is like voting Republican). Seems to make it easier for people to vote their conscience rather than vote practically, thereby bypassing some of Duverger's law.

[/ QUOTE ]
All people I know that are strongly supporting minority parties (Green, Trotzkists) will vote/have voted Royal. This is really more of a "do you want" Sarkozy election than anything else.

[ConstantineX]

Since you're there, what do you think of the economy? There's a lack of understanding on both sides; we libertarians here believe the French are languishing in long lines for healthcare, and they believe the poor in the US are starving in the streets. What's good, what's bad?

[clowntable]

Since I have a background in economics I can only detest the French choices regarding economics.

But I can give a nice example of the impact of the elections on our company:
On the surface we would be better off economically if Sarkozy wins due to the assumption that his less socialist program would help companies in general.
In reality however, things that get overlooked often like his "reforms" on immiration and his position on software patents have cost our company a lot of money.

I'm in the familiar situation that I'd have to make a choice between giving up civil liberies and the economic well being of the nation which should be familiar to some in the US.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

[ QUOTE ]

I tend to disagree. France and Germany are extremly different from what happened over tha last years.
In Germany, costs of reuniting have hindered the country a lot during a period when other European countries invested in improvements of all kinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't disagree that they are very different. I just meant they have in common that they did not reform early enough, just ran straight into the problems. Btw, reunification, how long is that going to be an excuse? Slovenia is a former communist country and has 6.3% unemployment.

[clowntable]

Since this also meant inheriting a lot of left wing (and right wing for that matter) political momentum, I guess quite some time.
Also my sense of Realpolitik makes me belive that it takes a lot longer for any kind of reform to get done in bigger countries.
I'm not making excuses, things could be better but at least there are some things we do right which get overlooked very often as well (i.e. no minimum wage)

[Arnfinn Madsen]

[ QUOTE ]
Since this also meant inheriting a lot of left wing (and right wing for that matter) political momentum, I guess quite some time.
Also my sense of Realpolitik makes me belive that it takes a lot longer for any kind of reform to get done in bigger countries.
I'm not making excuses, things could be better but at least there are some things we do right which get overlooked very often as well (i.e. no minimum wage)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, of course you do many things right, it is a well-run country compared to most countries in the world. Just lacks ambition and flexibility compared to the better ones, and the difference in that regard is huge. It seems like in the small countries in Europe these changes have been made through some sort of consensus where the political parties and unions and companies go together to find a realistic stabile compromise. I guess the same is what they attempt now in Germany with the big coalition, it is easier to get things done when not one of the big parties will take the whole blame.

I have applied for jobs in both Scandinavia and Germany and in Germany the labor market is extremely inflexible in comparison. In Scandinavia they hire people of different backgrounds and train them and adjust the organisation to some extent to fit with their qualifications, in Germany it seems like the companies hire only personnel with the exact profile they were looking for. I don't see how structural unemployment can ever disappear when it is like that, this just has to change. Also, why aren't unemployed Germans to a larger extent going abroad to search for jobs? In Norway we are discussing how to attract more Bulgarians and Rumanians to come, the companies seems to have given up on recruiting Germans although the language and culture barrier is relatively small.

[clowntable]

Regarding working in foraign countries: I have done just that so I cannot give a good answer I guess.
What you pointed out is absolutely valid however. The point about structural inflexibility is a great one.
Personally I belive this to be the main reason:
If you do not choose to attend Univerity in Germany, your usual career choice is some sort of specialized work training programm which consists of roughly 50% school, 50% on the job training. You will attend an electrician's school for example. This is a highly specialized education, however it takes 3-4 years, just like University. If you don't find a job, you're screwed because your options are retraining or a lesser job (McDonalds etc.)
I much prefer a direct on the job training and more of a "hire and fire" mentality.

[Iplayboard]

[ QUOTE ]


Something to root for as I continue to live a nearly 100% french-free life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill O'Reilly would be proud.

Both my roommate and girlfriend are French. I don't understand why so many people in the United States are anti-France. It's a beautiful country with a rich history. Even if its politics are a mess.

In case anyone is interested, here is a good summary of the issues.

Last but not least, I'd definitely hit the socialist candidate Royal. She'd look like a Victoria's Secret model standing next to Hilary.

[ConstantineX]

Most definitely. It's a shame she's a socialist, but maybe we'd have awesome angry sex.