Stars VIP Wild speculation

[Henry17]

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Is it me? I've run horridly for my last 75k hands or so...

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Don't think so. The username is Sa???? something. Has a "d" and a "o" in it. Opening my ring game stats on PT takes 5-10 minutes so can't look it up

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So it appears only 400 out of more than 2000 Supernovas are even playing these freerolls

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That was what I estimated. I figured that out of the 400 at least 1/2 are people who play but would prefer not to play but do so because they don't want to waste the EV.

[NewGuy]

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So it appears only 400 out of more than 2000 Supernovas are even playing these freerolls

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That was what I estimated. I figured that out of the 400 at least 1/2 are people who play but would prefer not to play but do so because they don't want to waste the EV.

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See above post, it looks like 845 played.

I agree that a large portion of those who played would prefer a cash bonus worth ~1/3 of the freeroll value.

We can probably just agree to disagree that the figure is 50% of people who play in the freerolls would prefer $1,000 in cash bonuses in 2008 over $3,000 in freeroll EV.

Even assuming you're right, though, this means 400+ current Novas will be disappointed with the change and subsequent reduction of $2,000 in EV. My personal belief is that closer to ~2/3 (or 600 SuperNovas) would prefer $3k in freeroll EV to $1k cash.

[Henry17]

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I would be happy to get $70/week in cash bonuses for 2008.

If I have to choose between $70/week in EV from freerolls or ~$20/week in cash bonuses I will choose the freerolls.

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So you think that 33% of SNs getting $3000 and 66% getting nothing is a more equitable outcome then 100% getting $1000?
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There is no way to give every SN $3000 in EV with a budget of $160k.

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Isn't this more or less what happened in 2007 with the current freeroll structure?

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No. If all 2200+ SN played in the freeroll then the EV would be $1000 not $3000.

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For the record, I don't disagree with what I think is the central premise of your argument - that the ~2/3 of SuperNovas who did or do not play in the freerolls essentially gave their EV to those who did.

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There are 2200+SNs. Even if we take the 800 you claim played that is 2/3 not playing.

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Stars customer focus is outstanding, I'm confident they'll find a creative solution to keep the "cash bonus" + "please give me the same $3k in EV" camps happy.

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Stars has excellent service but they are still limited by math. The budget makes this a zero sum system. There is no way to give something to someone without taking it from someone else.

[1p0kerboy]

Ouch.

For some reason I counted the total number of players in the satellites and not the total number of seats won. Doh!

It didn't seem like my numbers were making sense. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

[NewGuy]

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So you think that 33% of SNs getting $3000 and 66% getting nothing is a more equitable outcome then 100% getting $1000?


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No, as I stated in my last reply to you, I do NOT think this is more equitable. However, it is the Status Quo, and the system that Stars designed, created, and currently has implemented.

IMO, Stars will be making a marketing blunder if they change it to make it more equitable without any consideration to the perception of the 400-800 SuperNovas who are likely anticipating / hoping that they will receive the same $3,000 in EV for 2008 as they did in 2007.

Bottom line, your system is more equitable, but it's not the one Stars chose. Switching at this point while keeping the budget fixed would reduce the attractiveness of the SuperNova program to many people.

With the exception of people who have a scheduling conflict, I don't think the majority SuperNovas who don't "bother" to grab the EV of these freerolls are going to be bitterly disappointed if the Status Quo is maintained.

Stars does the SuperNova program to attract / retain customers. I don't see anyone who was Nova for 2007 who won't go for SuperNova in 2007 because there was a CHANCE for $20/week in cash bonuses talked about on 2+2, but it never materialized. There may very well be some players on the bubble in terms of deciding whether to go for Nova in 2008 who might be sufficiently disappointed with losing $2k in EV to not bother. I happen to be one of them.

[NewGuy]

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Ouch.

For some reason I counted the total number of players in the satellites and not the total number of seats won. Doh!

It didn't seem like my numbers were making sense. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

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No worries, I forgot Gold/Plats could even play in them until you or MicroBob reminded me.

I'm pretty sure this is just an intellectual exercise anyway. I'd bank on Stars keeping the freeroll value largely intact while also adding / enhancing some new optional bonus program.

Stars rocks when it comes to listening to players.

[MicroBob]

But you already have at least some of those who actally receive the freeroll EV also saying that they would prefer to not have to deal with them.
If only 33% of SN's play the freerolls in the first place and only some of those actually enjoy playing the freerolls are available for them then that leaves a vast majority of SN's would prefer straight-up cash.

Right now I think you have some bitterness from those in Europe and Australia especially for whom the freerolls are pretty inconvenient.
And you even have some bitterness from people like myturn and me who have actually made more money from the freerolls but just don't like the specified time-commitment even when it isn't interfering with our schedules too much.

When you have some bitterness from the people who can't realistically participate and you have bitterness from some of the people who actually are participating then that only leaves a small minority of SN's who actually find these things exciting or worthwhile.

Keeping the same format to appease that small minority and keep them happy while continuing to leave the vast majority of SN's kind of annoyed for one reason or another or another does't seem like a good idea to me.

As has been recommended before...if they had flexible freerolls or offered Sunday-Million tickets or something then I think that would go a ways towards solving one of the problems with the time-commitment thing and that it's impossible to hold a weekly freeroll that is at a convenient time for everyone.
At least let me have SOME choice in when to play them instead of practically telling me, "Saturday at 2p Eastern!! Or else you get nothing!"

[Henry17]

Stars choose this originally but they also choose to ask our opinion and open up to a vote in a different thread.

I don't think anyone will not go for SN if the freerolls are gone. Realistically they are a minor and insignificant part of the package.

Regardless they cause a lot of issues from what I've heard. While I'm sure every player is valuable I think it makes sense to risk annoying 400-600 of the lower level SNs then to annoy the 1500-1800 high volume SNs.

[Henry17]

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I'm pretty sure this is just an intellectual exercise anyway. I'd bank on Stars keeping the freeroll value largely intact while also adding / enhancing some new optional bonus program.

Stars rocks when it comes to listening to players.

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Adding more to the budget doesn't change anything. It is still a zero sum situation.

[xmbs]

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As has been recommended before...if they had flexible freerolls or offered Sunday-Million tickets or something then I think that would go a ways towards solving one of the problems with the time-commitment thing and that it's impossible to hold a weekly freeroll that is at a convenient time for everyone.
At least let me have SOME choice in when to play them instead of practically telling me, "Saturday at 2p Eastern!! Or else you get nothing!"

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I definitely agree with this, as strongly as I feel about the value not plummeting clearly some sort of increased flexibility is sorely needed. As on the other thread my endorsement for the Sunday Million ticket idea is strong and enthusiastic, I think it's just about the best thing Stars could do (and maybe offer a lower cash bonus to those who positively refuse to play tournaments.)