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  #1  
Old 11-29-2007, 12:56 AM
DevinLake DevinLake is offline
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Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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Default 400NL: Over pair, ugly flop, semi-deep.

villain is 36/19/1.75 after about 150 hands. No real history or reads.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (5 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Button ($0)
<font color="#C00000">SB ($662.10)</font>
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($619.88)</font>
UTG ($378)
MP ($537.42)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $16</font>, SB calls $14, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $75</font>, MP folds, SB calls $59.

Flop: ($166) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $154</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $308</font>, Hero ????
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  #2  
Old 11-29-2007, 01:04 AM
nuggetz87 nuggetz87 is offline
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Default Re: 400NL: Over pair, ugly flop, semi-deep.

[ QUOTE ]
Hero snap looked up

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #3  
Old 11-29-2007, 01:12 AM
ungar2000 ungar2000 is offline
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Default Re: 400NL: Over pair, ugly flop, semi-deep.

push
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  #4  
Old 11-29-2007, 01:15 AM
RockyElsom RockyElsom is offline
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Default Re: 400NL: Over pair, ugly flop, semi-deep.

Fold and bet way less on the flop.
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  #5  
Old 11-29-2007, 01:22 AM
DevinLake DevinLake is offline
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Default Re: 400NL: Over pair, ugly flop, semi-deep.

[ QUOTE ]
Fold and bet way less on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm going to bet way less, why wouldn't I just check?
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  #6  
Old 11-29-2007, 01:55 AM
markuisis markuisis is offline
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Default Re: 400NL: Over pair, ugly flop, semi-deep.

checking this flop is good sometimes, as played id fold with no maniacal postflop reads. I dont c how betting less is the same as checking the flop - when u bet less u expect his calling range to be wider and allow urself to get away from the hand more easily if he shows a lot of strength.
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  #7  
Old 11-29-2007, 02:03 AM
DevinLake DevinLake is offline
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Default Re: 400NL: Over pair, ugly flop, semi-deep.

Well, my thinking was that i was betting to protect my hand on a drawy board. If I bet way less, this goal is not accomplished.

I guess betting smaller will get called by a wider range, just being more for value. But, I also get shoved on lighter.

So, I don't think betting smaller makes it easier to fold or to shove.
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  #8  
Old 11-29-2007, 02:07 AM
markuisis markuisis is offline
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Default Re: 400NL: Over pair, ugly flop, semi-deep.

[ QUOTE ]
Well, my thinking was that i was betting to protect my hand on a drawy board. If I bet way less, this goal is not accomplished.

I guess betting smaller will get called by a wider range, just being more for value. But, I also get shoved on lighter.

So, I don't think betting smaller makes it easier to fold or to shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

in fact betting smaller makes it less likely u get shoved on IMO because when u bet big ur essentially putting him to a decision for all his chips so he might just decide to felt tp or go with a draw etc. However, when u bet smaller, it seems like he still has some playing to do and doesnt have to decide whether or not to go with the hand right then and there, its not like hes gonna bluff shove this board for his stack just cause ur bet was a bit weaker.
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  #9  
Old 11-29-2007, 02:10 AM
markuisis markuisis is offline
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Default Re: 400NL: Over pair, ugly flop, semi-deep.

Even if u dont buy my smaller bet argument for tighter shoving (i think it could go either way), the flop looks like a b/f, hopefully he just calls and u get it in on the turn (which does happen quite a bit) but if he shoves on this board I dont think u can call without reads stating hes maniacal post-flop.
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  #10  
Old 11-29-2007, 02:11 AM
RockyElsom RockyElsom is offline
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Default Re: 400NL: Over pair, ugly flop, semi-deep.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold and bet way less on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm going to bet way less, why wouldn't I just check?

[/ QUOTE ]

The same reason why you bet now? You're committing yourself to the pot. Bet 100, get him to peel with worse (and believe me, a guy like this probably has lots of random stuff that will see a turn).

By betting less, we also entice him to call instead of raising his draw, we don't inflate the pot as much, we get more value out of hands, and we can move away easily from scare cards.

Or you can check. but potting is the worst option if you're not prepared to stick it in now.
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