Question about RP "legacy."

[MiloMinderbinder]

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And we don't have one that explicitly embraces free-market capitalism either.

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Nor does any country. (While every country but the US has one which is socialist, as was the point being made.)

So every party in the western world is on the left.

Brilliant.

Now these terms have real meaning.

Bravo.

[AlexM]

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[ QUOTE ]
And we don't have one that explicitly embraces free-market capitalism either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nor does any country. (While every country but the US has one which is socialist, as was the point being made.)

So every party in the western world is on the left.

Brilliant.

Now these terms have real meaning.

Bravo.

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You're the one who assigned the ridiculous "left" = "socialist" and "right" = "capitalism" definitions, not me.


And, of course, the whole point is that libertarianism isn't any closer to Republicans than it is to Democrats. For every thing you see in libertarianism that makes you think "OMG, right wing!!!" there is another that the Republican sees in libertarianism that makes them go "OMG, left wing!!!"

The fact is that by the traditional usage of the left-right scale in this country, libertarians would be moderate, but that's obviously stupid, which is why the left-right scale is garbage and a multidimensional scale works a lot better.

A much more reasonable measure:



Note that placements are random arbitrary estimations by me. Note that if you just go by left/right rather than 2 dimensions, ACism would qualify as "centrism" despite the fact that it's obviously an extreme position.

The problem, as I see it, is with the linear left/right thinking, both leftists and rightists see an extreme position that they disagree with and automatically place it at the other end of the spectrum. The real world simply isn't so one dimensional though.

Also note that both Goldwater Republicans and the Green Party are closer to libertarians than modern Democrats and Republicans, despite being on completely opposite ends of the left/right spectrum.

[lehighguy]

If he doesn't win people will forget about him by the next election.

[Misfire]

The whole left-right debate is silly, as if politics exists in 1 dimension. Even the Nolan chart above doesn't define many positions with much precision. Also, the entire ideas of left/right/Republican/Democrat/Liberal/Conservative/etc have evolved and mutated so much of the years, that you can't adequately compare any of them across geographic regions or throughout time without having to constantly redefine them.

Re: Paul legacy. Paul may be forgotten if he doesn't win. So was Nader. But Nader's effects on the Democratic party (since he effectively cost them the presidency) were huge. Between 2000 and 2004, the party shifted dramatically to the left in an attempt to recapture those votes. If Paul makes enough noise, it may have the same effect on the GOP, shifting them towards libertarianism. This is just the first step in what could become a major paradigm shift.

[Scary_Tiger]

[ QUOTE ]
The whole left-right debate is silly, as if politics exists in 1 dimension. Even the Nolan chart above doesn't define many positions with much precision. Also, the entire ideas of left/right/Republican/Democrat/Liberal/Conservative/etc have evolved and mutated so much of the years, that you can't adequately compare any of them across geographic regions or throughout time without having to constantly redefine them.

Re: Paul legacy. Paul may be forgotten if he doesn't win. So was Nader. But Nader's effects on the Democratic party (since he effectively cost them the presidency) were huge. Between 2000 and 2004, the party shifted dramatically to the left in an attempt to recapture those votes. If Paul makes enough noise, it may have the same effect on the GOP, shifting them towards libertarianism. This is just the first step in what could become a major paradigm shift.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even now, the other candidates have shifted their message less militant, more towards lower taxes, more talk of free markets, freedoms, Constitution etc. If you compare talk from them today to talk from them in May, the difference is striking, and for the better if it actually changes their policy.

[Misfire]

I doubt it will change anything about how they actually behave in office. GWB's campaign was based on the same things in 2000. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]