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#21
08-29-2007, 03:31 PM
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Re: Threat of Fund. Islam vs. Threat of Illuminati
The biggest thread of Islam today is the maintream opinion of its followers and their "tolerant" western counterparts who wish to restrict our freedoms and liberties; noticeably freedom of speech. The same people who protest on the streets calling for "Death to the infedels" and so on are the same ones who seek legislature and hate-speech laws to prevent us from being able to engage in critical discussion concerning their crackpot beliefs.
Brothers, sisters, comrades... It is time we fight back against this tyranny of zealots and blind followers of hate, racism, genocide, mutilation, sexism and irrationality. Its very simple; do not support big governments and refuse to be subjected to laws that create a false antithesis wherin madmen in the name of religion are allowed to scream hatred whilst we are not permitted to debate and critique. 
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#22
08-30-2007, 11:10 PM
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Re: Threat of Fund. Islam vs. Threat of Illuminati
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'm forced to agree with a lot of what borocay says above. But also, genuine external threats DO exist. Radical Islam IS one of those threats. No matter how much profiteerring and/or distortion of the threat by Bush and his admin, the threat DOES exist. [/ QUOTE ] I’m not saying terrorist organizations aren’t a threat. I wanted to say they are not a threat for homogenizing the world under a single power and their goal isn’t a global dominance over the others. Well, the goal of neocons is exactly that (and history tells us who had the same ideas in the past). One should make a clear distinction in between small groups which have some goals regarding causing instability or fear and when a superpower announce the same. On one side you can’t expect any support in any country, no direct or indirect influence to media or church (if you exclude the most extremist preachers, who can’t get a wider support by its followers) and with very limited funds, weaponry and supporters. And you have the only superpower left on the other side, which has unlimited funds, the best technology and weaponry available, with direct and indirect influence over media at home and abroad and is capable to confront anyone (just remember the reasons for iraq and following support by media and people at that time). While one is capable to cause a lot of fear and damage in very isolated areas, the other is capable of causing a total destruction of any country, wider region or the whole world. Under previous actions, lies, media control, etc. the quotes like ‘objectively the Muslim threat seems much more dangerous’ sound funny and totally ignorant about facts to me. If they can devastate the whole country, causing over half million of deaths and millions of refugees, destabilizing the whole Middle East and while the top cowboy thinks he has been called by God and acts as if Americans are God’s chosen people, it probably should be seen as a greater danger. Even if you share the same thinking about chosen people and putting the others into level of animals (like ‘they are breeding like rabbits’), one probably should be watchful, when a Constitution becomes just ‘goddamned piece of paper’, after reducing human rights at home or just by starting unnecessary private wars funded with your money. "Where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control." - Lord Acton (1834-1902) "Sarah, if the American people had ever known the truth about what we Bushes have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - George H.W. Bush to reporter Sarah McClendon in 1992 "Out of these troubled times, our objective: a new world order can emerge, Today, that new world is struggling to be born, a world quite different from the one we have known." - George H. W. Bush told the U.N. on September 11th 1990 "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." - G.W. Bush, Gridiron Club dinner, Wash., D.C. March 2001 "It is a quite special secret pleasure how the people around us fail to realize what is really happening to them." - Adolph Hitler [/ QUOTE ] OK. I accede one side (The superpower:USA today perhaps China a few years on) does have more power to cause greater harm on a greater scale than the radical Muslims of today. Also, it's our country/superpower so we are responsible for changing it's direction when we think it's heading wrong. In the land of the semirelevant analogy (poli forum [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]) I'll try this. Perhaps Bush/Co/profiteers is the gunshot wound that needs to be dealt with immediately from a triage point of view. The threat of the growing base of Radical Islam though is the deadly cancer, which may not kill us today or tomorrow, but doesn't mean we shouldn't treat it vigorously NOW before IT becomes the "gunshot wound". [/ QUOTE ] I agree Radical Islam is dangerous and should be taken seriously. Unfortunately, Neocons are not helping too much. In fact Radical Islam is spread as never before with magnificent help by their actions.
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#23
08-30-2007, 11:58 PM
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Re: Threat of Fund. Islam vs. Threat of Illuminati
[ QUOTE ]
I agree Radical Islam is dangerous and should be taken seriously. Unfortunately, Neocons are not helping too much. In fact Radical Islam is spread as never before with magnificent help by their actions. [/ QUOTE ] The Neo-Cons are pulling out all the stops to further radicalize and Shari'a-ize the Middle East, and they don't even realize it.
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#24
08-31-2007, 02:00 PM
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Re: Threat of Fund. Islam vs. Threat of Illuminati
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I agree Radical Islam is dangerous and should be taken seriously. Unfortunately, Neocons are not helping too much. In fact Radical Islam is spread as never before with magnificent help by their actions. [/ QUOTE ] The Neo-Cons are pulling out all the stops to further radicalize and Shari'a-ize the Middle East, and they don't even realize it. [/ QUOTE ] You think they are stupid, huh? I used to think that but then I realized that it's simply not true. There are many smart politicians. Bill Clinton was a Rhodes scholar, for example. They know exactly what they are doing. Why do people say that politicians are stupid? They say this because they can't explain it any other way because it makes no sense to them. The people who craft these laws are very smart. Make no mistake about that. If you forget about the rhetoric and just look at the policy that comes out of Washington, then you will see what they really care about. For example, take the War in Iraq. Ask yourself this: "Are we trying to win in Iraq?" The answer is obviously a resounding NO for several undisputable reasons, not the least of which are the following: 1) Doctrine of Overwhelming Force, a "hard rule" of American warfare was not used. (Look at the difference in troop numbers between the first and second Iraq wars for comparative sake...less than half the size of the first war) 2) Rules of Engagement- The rules of engagement on American troops are incredibly hostile to our own troops and make it damn near impossible for our troops to make any progress. These two points are indisputable and are certainly worthy of individual threads in their own right. So, if we aren't trying to win in Iraq, then we must be trying to occupy Iraq. Now, I don't know the reason that we are trying to occupy Iraq but I can come up with many different theories. It's not that they are stupid, it's that they have another agenda that has been hidden from the public debate. If you take it one issue at a time, you have to come up with some rather disturbing hypotheses... 1) Decline of the dollar 2) Subprime lending 3) Amnesty/Illegal Immigration (slave wages) 4) Why the hell is the stock market supporting PE ratios of 30+??? I could go on and on but the policies lack any kind of logic unless you realize that politics is fueled by money and the big money doesn't come from you and I but from the big PACs, lobbyists, and MNCs. It doesn't take an Illuminati cabal conspiracy to explain what's really happening (although it adds a certain panache). No, just follow the money. MNCs get what they want, how they want, when they want. They pay the money, you don't. You get the choices they give you. No conspiracy necessary. MNCs want: 1) the erasure of borders 2) cheap labor 3) to keep you poor enough that you can't fund an idea that could compete with (or bankrupt) them. 4) to make profits all over the entire world 5) Opening up all of our patents When they talk about exporting the idea of America to the entire world, they are literally thinking about a Wal-Mart in every neighborhood from Toledo to Tibet. They want to own it all. They are the big, monstrous stack against nine smaller stacks. They want to own it all. Maybe there is a secret cabal somewhere that worships a dark, malevolent force. Maybe there isn't. I don't know, but it really doesn't take an elaborate conspiracy hatched in the woods of northern California. It may sound sexier to say that's what it is but when it all boils down to it we're just talking about capitalists who, now that they're on top, are willing to change the rules of the game that got them there for their own protection. Start out a capitalist, get rich, become an oligarchist. Captialism in its purist form is a meritocracy. We're a long, long way from that now, people. They are NOT stupid.
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#25
08-31-2007, 02:13 PM
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Re: Threat of Fund. Islam vs. Threat of Illuminati
wow, Mempho, awesome post.
A quick snide comment about Bush. I think he is stupid. A stupid puppet for these people. He doesn't care as long as he gets rich. I really don't think he knows what he is doing at all.
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#26
08-31-2007, 02:48 PM
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Re: Threat of Fund. Islam vs. Threat of Illuminati
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I agree Radical Islam is dangerous and should be taken seriously. Unfortunately, Neocons are not helping too much. In fact Radical Islam is spread as never before with magnificent help by their actions. [/ QUOTE ] The Neo-Cons are pulling out all the stops to further radicalize and Shari'a-ize the Middle East, and they don't even realize it. [/ QUOTE ] You think they are stupid, huh? I used to think that but then I realized that it's simply not true. There are many smart politicians. Bill Clinton was a Rhodes scholar, for example. They know exactly what they are doing. Why do people say that politicians are stupid? They say this because they can't explain it any other way because it makes no sense to them. The people who craft these laws are very smart. Make no mistake about that. If you forget about the rhetoric and just look at the policy that comes out of Washington, then you will see what they really care about. For example, take the War in Iraq. Ask yourself this: "Are we trying to win in Iraq?" The answer is obviously a resounding NO for several undisputable reasons, not the least of which are the following: 1) Doctrine of Overwhelming Force, a "hard rule" of American warfare was not used. (Look at the difference in troop numbers between the first and second Iraq wars for comparative sake...less than half the size of the first war) 2) Rules of Engagement- The rules of engagement on American troops are incredibly hostile to our own troops and make it damn near impossible for our troops to make any progress. These two points are indisputable and are certainly worthy of individual threads in their own right. So, if we aren't trying to win in Iraq, then we must be trying to occupy Iraq. Now, I don't know the reason that we are trying to occupy Iraq but I can come up with many different theories. It's not that they are stupid, it's that they have another agenda that has been hidden from the public debate. If you take it one issue at a time, you have to come up with some rather disturbing hypotheses... 1) Decline of the dollar 2) Subprime lending 3) Amnesty/Illegal Immigration (slave wages) 4) Why the hell is the stock market supporting PE ratios of 30+??? I could go on and on but the policies lack any kind of logic unless you realize that politics is fueled by money and the big money doesn't come from you and I but from the big PACs, lobbyists, and MNCs. It doesn't take an Illuminati cabal conspiracy to explain what's really happening (although it adds a certain panache). No, just follow the money. MNCs get what they want, how they want, when they want. They pay the money, you don't. You get the choices they give you. No conspiracy necessary. MNCs want: 1) the erasure of borders 2) cheap labor 3) to keep you poor enough that you can't fund an idea that could compete with (or bankrupt) them. 4) to make profits all over the entire world 5) Opening up all of our patents When they talk about exporting the idea of America to the entire world, they are literally thinking about a Wal-Mart in every neighborhood from Toledo to Tibet. They want to own it all. They are the big, monstrous stack against nine smaller stacks. They want to own it all. Maybe there is a secret cabal somewhere that worships a dark, malevolent force. Maybe there isn't. I don't know, but it really doesn't take an elaborate conspiracy hatched in the woods of northern California. It may sound sexier to say that's what it is but when it all boils down to it we're just talking about capitalists who, now that they're on top, are willing to change the rules of the game that got them there for their own protection. Start out a capitalist, get rich, become an oligarchist. Captialism in its purist form is a meritocracy. We're a long, long way from that now, people. They are NOT stupid. [/ QUOTE ] Good post and a lot to think about. I don't think the Neo-Cons are stupid, and I do think many political elites will stand to gain by the same sort of political/economic things that will screw the non-elites over. I also think the Neo-Cons are hopelessly naive about the power of democracy to transform the Middle East. Democracy may well transform the Middle East, all right, but if so it will be in the direction of Shai'a Law rather than Western Constitutional Representative Democratic Government. That is what I mean when I call the Neo-Cons naive. They don't seem to understand that most people in the Middle East would choose, and have chosen when given the choice, Shari'a Law over Western freedoms and government. So that is what spreading democracy in the Middle East will empower, and why Bush's ideological crusade over there is a joke. Grats again on a very thought-provoking post.
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#27
08-31-2007, 02:52 PM
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Re: Threat of Fund. Islam vs. Threat of Illuminati
[ QUOTE ]
and why Bush's ideological crusade over there is a joke. [/ QUOTE ] I think he, and his handlers, know this. Most people seem to be realizing this now as well. Makes you wonder why they are continuing it, until you realize Bush and his other Elite cronies from around the world benefit from more war.
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#28
08-31-2007, 02:58 PM
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Re: Threat of Fund. Islam vs. Threat of Illuminati
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] and why Bush's ideological crusade over there is a joke. [/ QUOTE ] I think he, and his handlers, know this. Most people seem to be realizing this now as well. Makes you wonder why they are continuing it, until you realize Bush and his other Elite cronies from around the world benefit from more war. [/ QUOTE ] I really have the feeling that Bush believes what he says.
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#29
08-31-2007, 03:42 PM
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Re: Threat of Fund. Islam vs. Threat of Illuminati
[ QUOTE ]
wow, Mempho, awesome post. A quick snide comment about Bush. I think he is stupid. A stupid puppet for these people. He doesn't care as long as he gets rich. I really don't think he knows what he is doing at all. [/ QUOTE ] Thank you and regarding Bush: You are probably right. Usually, you'll notice that first-generation elites are either very smart, very lucky, very unethical (lie, cheat, steal types) or some combination thereof. Second generation elites are usually far different because they've always "played the big stack" and they've never had to think laterally or vertically (the Kennedys were quite the exception). Second, third, and fourth generation elites are usually the "safest" presidents from an "establishment" standpoint. They ask no questions and they always think like elites since that's all they've ever been (once again, save the Kennedys whose populist mantra may have been their undoing).
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#30
08-31-2007, 03:54 PM
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Re: Threat of Fund. Islam vs. Threat of Illuminati
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] and why Bush's ideological crusade over there is a joke. [/ QUOTE ] I think he, and his handlers, know this. Most people seem to be realizing this now as well. Makes you wonder why they are continuing it, until you realize Bush and his other Elite cronies from around the world benefit from more war. [/ QUOTE ] I really have the feeling that Bush believes what he says. [/ QUOTE ] A born-again Christian globalist. Is that an oxymoron? I'm not sure if it's even possible considering the belief structure.
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