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  #341  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:52 PM
vulturesrow vulturesrow is offline
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Default Re: ***Official*** CNN/YouTube GOP debate

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So should we create whole units of personnel that are only homosexuals? Is that the integration you are talking about?

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They should just remove don't ask don't tell. If someone joins up and they show up to a military event with a male partner or they talk about having relations with another man just get used to it.

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You honestly think its just that simple?

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No, the gays who enter the military will be harassed and it will be a big issue and people will throw a hissy fit about everything. The military will be pissed about it and so will a lot of other people. A lot of gay people who are open will be take serious harassment and it won't be easy for anyone.

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Ok, you admit that there will be a high level of disruption, but you want to introduce that into military units (especially combat units)? How would deal with sort of disruption as a Unit Commanding Officer? For instance, do you allow openly gay military members use open showers for instance? If so, will you allow male and female service members to use open showers together as well?

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All of that I do not know how it would exactly work out. I only think that there would be an initial disruption...then the policy would be level itself out.

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Thats easy for you to say. But the CO has to make those decisions as soon as something like that is implemented. If you want to implement something radical, you ought to have some answers. I dont mean you personally necessary, but upper level policy makers who want to implement things like this.
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  #342  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:58 PM
adanthar adanthar is offline
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Default Re: ***Official*** CNN/YouTube GOP debate

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Cause people were never afraid of black people wanting to sexually harass them? A lot of homophobia comes from sexist guys being afraid of other guys treating them the way that those sexist guys treat women.

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They might not have been scared of sexual harrassment, but I bet the "worst case scenario" back in 1950 seemed a lot worse - on both sides, BTW - than anything that would happen today. I don't think that repealing DADT would result in people getting killed; that was a legitimate concern in 1950. The armed forces did manage somehow, though.

Also, women in the military had all these same problems *and* needed to get their own barracks, restrooms, etc. at the military's expense. Once again, they managed it with no loss of life or morale. What's the holdup?
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  #343  
Old 11-29-2007, 07:01 PM
Case Closed Case Closed is offline
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Default Re: ***Official*** CNN/YouTube GOP debate

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Thats easy for you to say. But the CO has to make those decisions as soon as something like that is implemented. If you want to implement something radical, you ought to have some answers. I dont mean you personally necessary, but upper level policy makers who want to implement things like this.

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Well, let's pull ourselves out of that massive quote fest.

I empathize with what you're saying. It certainly would be hell for these COs to have to implement this rule change. The showering, barracks, hazing, and a litany of other things would come up because of it. I certainly don't have all the answers for how to make this work, and I am probably the last person the military would look to for answers on this subject. Separate quarters and things would not be a bad idea in my opinion. I guess this debate really comes to a conclusion here? Since we are at a bit of an impasse, you want more answers for implementation that I can't give you.
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  #344  
Old 11-29-2007, 07:16 PM
illini43 illini43 is offline
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Default Re: ***Official*** CNN/YouTube GOP debate

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You ever been in the military? If you have you know that for singles who live on base, you usually have a roommate. Naturally they now assign you one of your same sex. So is the military just supposed to say tough [censored] to the joe who gets assigned a gay roomie of the same sex but violently objects to same? Or should they also assign housing by sexual preference, in which case one gay man might object to being assigned with a certain other, when there really aren't any other available choices. And what of family housing? An unmarried gay guy supposed to get a house instead of a barracks billet with his significant other when same isn't offered (assuming still the case) to unmarried straights?

This is a lot more complicated that you are making it out to be even aside from other problems.

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Having an openly gay roomate with a heterosexual one in the military doesn't necesarily mean that the gay person will be attracted to, or want to have sexual relations with their rommate.

I can think of lots of examples of gay and straight people living together as roomates - in fact, one of my own roomates might even be gay, I don't feel that he is sexually attracted to me, and if he was, he wouldn't act on it. The same could be said for different-gendered rommates. Just because a man chooses to live with a woman (this happens a lot in college) doesn't mean they are sexually attracted to each other, or if they were, any sexual relations between them would result.

I think the average American, especially the standard conservative-minded soldier, still has strong homophobic feelings, which is why we won't see (IMO) an openly pro-gay policy in the military. This is unfortunate and unequal for gays and lesbians, but it will take some time before the general public gets acclimated to having homosexuals in the military. The military is a conservative institution, conservative don't approve of homosexual behvaior, therefore we won't see a pro-gay military structure until this trend changes.
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  #345  
Old 11-29-2007, 07:38 PM
foal foal is offline
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Default Re: ***Official*** CNN/YouTube GOP debate

I really can't see having a gay roommate being a problem. If it is a problem for someone I think there could be the option to request not to have a gay roommate.
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  #346  
Old 11-29-2007, 07:45 PM
adanthar adanthar is offline
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Default Re: ***Official*** CNN/YouTube GOP debate

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I can think of lots of examples of gay and straight people living together as roomates - in fact, one of my own roomates might even be gay

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I lived in a 2BR apartment with my fiancee (now wife) and gay best friend for a year and change. Somehow, no threesomes or cheating was involved and everyone still liked each other afterwards!

(which was impressive, considering everyone involved usually hates roommates)
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  #347  
Old 11-29-2007, 09:16 PM
Max Raker Max Raker is offline
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Default Re: ***Official*** CNN/YouTube GOP debate

For the people using the black soldier analogy, don't you agree that there was a time when it would not have been worth the trouble to try to integrate the army, say 1900? If I was sent back in time and my task was to make the US army stronger I would not demand integration until much later. The question is whether we are in 1950 or 1900. I think we are in 1950 but some people may disagree. I think everybody with a brain realizes that it will happen one day.
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  #348  
Old 11-29-2007, 09:18 PM
iron81 iron81 is offline
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Default Re: ***Official*** CNN/YouTube GOP debate

I like Max's post.
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  #349  
Old 11-29-2007, 09:22 PM
NeBlis NeBlis is offline
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Default Re: ***Official*** CNN/YouTube GOP debate

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I like Max's post.

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I like Max's "post" also... if by "post" you mean penis and by "like" you mean pounding me with.

also the 1900/1950 analogy isn't bad
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  #350  
Old 11-29-2007, 09:39 PM
JayTee JayTee is offline
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Default Re: ***Official*** CNN/YouTube GOP debate

I think the biggest problem would be coming up with enough guns so that they could always be color coordinated no matter what camo pattern they're wearing.
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