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  #11  
Old 10-17-2007, 02:03 AM
blah-blah-blah blah-blah-blah is offline
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Default Re: Turning TP into bluff on river 4 flush vs southern

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when he checks the river u are either WA/WB ...just check it down, its almost always a mistake to turn a made hand into a bluff.

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ummm its the river of course we're WA/WB. actually we either have 100% equity or 0% equity. are you trying to say that his range is polarized?
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  #12  
Old 10-17-2007, 02:11 AM
Marshall28 Marshall28 is offline
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Default Re: Turning TP into bluff on river 4 flush vs southern

i didnt word what i was trying to say well.

basically i interpret a check here to mean 1 of 3 things... hes either given up on the hand, hes trying a checkraise w/ a huge hand, or hes going to call down any reasonable bet w/ a marginal diamond like a T or J.

so if he is giving up, u gain nothing by betting, and if he is trying to checkraise or check call w/ a diamond u are losing. on a side note, u are also opening yourself up to get bluffed off the best hand if he decides to checkraise u w/ air. i dont think most 200nl villains are capable of making this play, but its possible.

just betting here is really bad since its likely u wont fold out a better hand.
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2007, 02:17 AM
pete6969 pete6969 is offline
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Default Re: Turning TP into bluff on river 4 flush vs southern

very spewy take the free showdown vs a reg. Never good idea to turn this type of hand in to a bluff.
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  #14  
Old 10-17-2007, 02:17 AM
ikestoys ikestoys is offline
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Default Re: Turning TP into bluff on river 4 flush vs southern

[censored], i don't even like your turn bet, what is he calling with that we beat?
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  #15  
Old 10-17-2007, 02:22 AM
Marshall28 Marshall28 is offline
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Default Re: Turning TP into bluff on river 4 flush vs southern

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[censored], i don't even like your turn bet, what is he calling with that we beat?

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i think the turn bet is good.

southern is an aggressive player, its highly unlikely he has a diamond draw here, he would probably checkraise or lead the flop w/ it. the bet on the turn is for value as much as it is to protect against hands like 9xTd from getting to see a river and possibly making a flush that forces hero to shut down, thus taking the pot. it also looks like a really strong card to bluff, and makes it very difficult for villain to continue w/ almost his entire range. thinking about it further, the way the hand was played, i might actually put villain on a hand like A8 or A9. those seem to make a lot of sense based on the way the hand was played.
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  #16  
Old 10-17-2007, 03:07 AM
blah-blah-blah blah-blah-blah is offline
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Default Re: Turning TP into bluff on river 4 flush vs southern

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[censored], i don't even like your turn bet, what is he calling with that we beat?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think the turn bet is good.

southern is an aggressive player, its highly unlikely he has a diamond draw here, he would probably checkraise or lead the flop w/ it. the bet on the turn is for value as much as it is to protect against hands like 9xTd from getting to see a river and possibly making a flush that forces hero to shut down, thus taking the pot. it also looks like a really strong card to bluff, and makes it very difficult for villain to continue w/ almost his entire range. thinking about it further, the way the hand was played, i might actually put villain on a hand like A8 or A9. those seem to make a lot of sense based on the way the hand was played.

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BUT SOUTHERN SAID HE HAS 2 PAIR 0% OF THE TIME!!!!! I'm actually quite confused as to what a solid regular would be c/cing two streets w/ here. Anyone wanna try putting southern on a range after he c/c's the turn?
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  #17  
Old 10-17-2007, 03:17 AM
Marshall28 Marshall28 is offline
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Default Re: Turning TP into bluff on river 4 flush vs southern

well, he has cold called your UTG raise from BB ... PF id put his range on small-med prs, suited aces, and suited broadway.

when he check calls flop, he definitely doesnt have a set ... i dont think hes stupid enough to check call a set on this flop. i also think hes too aggressive to check call a straight or flush draw on this board. when the turn comes ace and he check calls again, this is the reason i put him on some type of 2pr hand w/ the ace. its cuz the diamonds got there, but he isn't sure whether or not u have the flush or are just bluffing, so his hand is basically just a bluff catcher, or a hand thats beating your Ax. if he were to checkraise here, he'd be folding out pretty much everything but the flush.

IMO it has to be something like that or something like Q9 w/ Qd ... he could be thinking that the ace is a good bluff card for u and top pair is still good here, and also that the out to the diamond is also a clean one. those are the only possibilities i think. he is bs'ing to say he never has 2 pr here ... he def doesnt have 2 pr on the flop, but its very much in his range on the turn, IMO.
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  #18  
Old 10-17-2007, 03:28 AM
Cap_Of_Water Cap_Of_Water is offline
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Default Re: Turning TP into bluff on river 4 flush vs southern

I'm still confused as to what he had, since before he folded he said "worst turn and even worse river" then folded. Although coulda been BS... then posted here that he has two pair/set 0% of the time... hopefully the response is honest...

I guess TT-QQ w/ no diamond?
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  #19  
Old 10-17-2007, 03:31 AM
homeboy604 homeboy604 is offline
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Default Re: Turning TP into bluff on river 4 flush vs southern

turn bet is definitely good. not betting there would be crazy.

river is too thin, and i check.
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