HORSE Freeroll FTP [Razz Hand]

[Chip753]

What about this play?
I was absolutely not sure about my call on fifth street: what do you think?

[Sorry but, I don't know why, the converter did not convert it]

Full Tilt Poker Game #4121991784: $100 Freeroll (31226648), Table 55 - 150/300 Ante 25 - Limit Razz - 19:03:02 ET - 2007/11/09
Seat 1: Villain (4,890)
Seat 2: xxx1 (6,868)
Seat 3: xxx2 (5,905)
Seat 4: xxx3 (3,725), is sitting out
Seat 5: xxx4 (620), is sitting out
Seat 6: Hero (3,573)
Seat 7: xxx5 (655), is sitting out
Seat 8: xxx6 (4,952)
Villain antes 25
xxx1 antes 25
xxx2 antes 25
xxx3 antes 25
xxx4 antes 25
Hero antes 25
xxx5 antes 25
xxx6 antes 25
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to Villain [3s]
Dealt to xxx1 [5h]
Dealt to xxx2 [Js]
Dealt to xxx3 [Qs]
Dealt to xxx4 [5s]
Dealt to Hero [3h 4d] [6d]
Dealt to xxx5 [Jd]
Dealt to xxx6 [8d]
xxx3 is high with [Qs]
xxx3 brings in for 50
xxx4 folds
Hero completes it to 150
xxx5 folds
xxx6 folds
Villain calls 150
xxx1 folds
xxx2 folds
xxx3 folds
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to Villain [3s] [Ah]
Dealt to Hero [3h 4d 6d] [2s]
Villain bets 150
Hero calls 150
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to Villain [3s Ah] [4s]
Dealt to Hero [3h 4d 6d 2s] [2c]
Villain bets 300
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero calls 300
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to Villain [3s Ah 4s] [7d]
Dealt to Hero [3h 4d 6d 2s 2c] [3c]
Villain bets 300
Hero folds
Uncalled bet of 300 returned to Villain
Villain mucks
Villain wins the pot (1,450)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1,450 | Rake 0
Seat 1: Villain collected (1,450), mucked
Seat 2: xxx1 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 3: xxx2 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 4: xxx3 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 5: xxx4 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 6: Hero folded on 6th St.
Seat 7: xxx5 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 8: xxx6 folded on 3rd St.

[RustyBrooks]

There is a seperate converter for FTP... it's on the same site as the other converter. I'll muddle through this hand and then post on that though.

[RustyBrooks]

I think I'd like a raise on 4th but sometimes I just call. Occaisonally it will help you out in the hand.

5th... well, it's tough. If you'd raised 4th he might have checked 5th and then you have the option to check behind or bet yourself. Often you are drawing very live because villain can have about anything... a pair, etc. Even if he has a low it might be an 8 of some kind, etc. It's very villain-dependent.

I think the fold on 6th is OK.

[Chip753]

This is another hand.
What about that?

Tournament - Razz (500/1,000), Ante 100 (converter)

Seat 1: 14,005
Seat 2: 540
Seat 3: 303
Seat 4: 24,153
Seat 5: 4,409
Seat 6: 51,590
Seat 7: 7,789
Hero: 8,968

3rd Street - (1.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___completes it to 203 (all-in)
Seat 4: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 7: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (4.01 SB)

Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___all-in
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets

5th Street - (3.00 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___all-in
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (5.00 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___all-in
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

River - (7.00 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___all-in
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___bets___calls
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises

Total pot: (11.00 BB - 11,003)

Results (in white):<font color="white">

Total pot 11,003 Main pot 1,409. Side pot 9,594. | Rake 0

Note: this site shuffles the hole cards.

</font>

On the river it is possible to consider it as a value bet but, basically, I was sure to have already beaten him.

[Chip753]

If I used the twodimes calculator in the correct way, in this last hand I win on the river 67.94 percent.
Considering that this is the first time that I use converter, did I read the analysis in the correct way?
Is it correct to raise?

[RustyBrooks]

Are you assuming random hole cards for your opponent? If so, then that's wrong... use www.propokertools.com, it lets you intelligently assign hand ranges to your opponent.

I don't like 3rd at all.

You really think your 98 was winning on 6th? That seems unlikely and here's why
* the raw chance that your opponent has a pair if he started with a quality hand is about 50%
* however, look at his up cards - A 3 5
- you have and A and a 3
- Seat 3 shows and A and a 3
- an A and a 3 already folded. There are 12 cards of A35... there are only 3 unaccounted for...
conclusion: it's very unlikely that he paired.

So in order for you to be ahead, he needs to have a hidden pair, two cards 8 and above, or one card above 9, or one of the remaining three 5s. Now it's possible he'd try to isolate against the short stack with something like A89 or A2T but if he did that's pretty silly, really. There's almost nothing to gain from such a gamble, and he'd actually generally prefer that the guy gets knocked out rather than double up.

Oh and the HH is weird... did the T open complete or did he call a completion? Or are they both considered completes because the first one wasn't a full one?

[Chip753]

I think that I have to read the thread about ante stealing cause this hand was probably related to it.
The fact is that the villain was playing in iper-aggressive way, try to steal every possible pot. I don't know exactly why but I had the feeling that he was not so strong as he wanted to show me (in a certain way I was sure he had something above 9)
The end is that: his hole cards were [Th 4s] and he cought a [2s] on the river!

It is interesting what you wrote about the fact that he had nothing to gain gambling against the short-stacker [a new thing about I should think more when I play]: the fact is that what he did was pretty silly........ in other words [Scotty's words], that's freeroll baby!

Now, I would like to understand if my feeling was a great thing or a stupid way to gamble against a guy that could be in a better position than me.

About completing, it is your second choice: the first one was all-in and he did not complete cause he had not a full bet.

[Chip753]

About twodimes: you were right, I used it.
Now I silmulated the hand on propokertool and I did in that way:
- I put the dead cards;
- I put my best hand before the river (A289);
- I put the others tow hands.

If the way in wich I put the data is correct, these are the results of the simulation considering three hands:
A298 43.69%
AJ35 43.35%
T3JA 12.96%

These are the results considering two hands:
A298 51.38%
AJ35 48.62%

If all those data are correct can we say that in a cash game my way of playing was correct cause I had +EV but maybe in tournament it was not (even if I had the famous feeling that he, as a maniac, was high on the hidden cards)?

[PrimeNut]

My read on 6th street (note the proper way to enter hand ranges):

Razz Simulation
559,061 trials (Randomized)
dead cards: 4T938
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
(8-8-)T3JA 19.88% 108,284 5,666
(9-9-)AJ53 59.18% 328,056 5,574
2A9883 20.95% 116,494 1,214

Raising is clearly wrong. Calling is wrong as you will have to call 2 BB (1 on 6th and 1 on 7th) to win 7 BB.

[Chip753]

Thank you for clearyfing me how to use properly ProPokerTool... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

About the hand: ok, I understand, but you are assuming that he is not high while I was almost sure cause I had seen some showdowns and he was really a maniac.
If you put data in this way, there is a big change in the situation:
- SIDE POT=
dead cards: 4T938
2A9883 74.91%
(T+8-)AJ53 25.09%

- MAIN POT=
dead cards: 4T938
2A9883 46.34%
(T+8-)AJ53 25.27%
(8-8-)T3JA 28.39%

I suppose the point is the image that the villain had in the table cause, if I was against another opponent, surely I had fold on IIIStreet.