SamG's Log

[shemp]

E,

Negatives are more taxing than going until failure by definition-- because you do your negatives after you've failed. But that doesn't mean you do negatives until you fail at them.

Given that we are both talking about work to and past failure, rest and managing fatigue increases in importance. If you were saying straight up GTG-- scrupulously avoid failure-- get a bunch of sub maximal effort sets in, then that is one thing. But what I now understand to be your suggestion of simply going to failure day after day is more severe and a worse suggestion, imo.

If you were suggesting more orthodox GTG-- my objection would be less strenuous-- but I'd still point out that his numbers are still low enough that there is hardly a such thing as a sub-maximal set. So go ahead and compromise. Beat yourself up 1-2x a week, GTG a couple other days-- and still get plenty of rest. And then drop the negatives (to never or rare) once GTG becomes the clear best alternative.

And also, you hit the nail on the head with: Sam's dedicated and is going to get to a higher level quickly no matter how good or bad our advice-- simply because he's doing more pull-ups.

I've got a lot more to say on pull-ups, but I'll leave it here as this has already gotten too long.

[SmileyEH]

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I was also doing them on the door with a towel over it, not on an actual bar.

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I'm doing them on my Bowflex, which is now an $800 chin-up bar.

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rofl

[Thremp]

shemp,

I've never liked that definition. Say I do 4 chins max, instead I can do 10 negatives in a controlled fashion... Doing 8 negatives doesn't cause more CNS burnout than doing 4 chins.

Though obv when you do 4 chins and throw in 3 more negatives... You're likely just ramrodding your CNS.

[shemp]

Who goes straight to the eccentric and why? I think you are bogged down in some sort of theory land. Yes, going to failure and then doing negatives is extremely demanding (but doesn't mean that you do negatives to failure).

I'm for avoiding failure in strength and strength endurance training, generally, and I think I've argued from that perspective several times. One of the exceptions that I make is in the early stages of building the pull-up. I don't know if it is optimal. I know it works. And I think it is preferable to graviton machines and enormously preferable to lat pull-downs.

And I think you'll notice that E is recommending much more aggressive attitude towards failure than typical as well-- although minus the negatives.

[Efourdee]

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E,

Negatives are more taxing than going until failure by definition-- because you do your negatives after you've failed. But that doesn't mean you do negatives until you fail at them.

Given that we are both talking about work to and past failure, rest and managing fatigue increases in importance. If you were saying straight up GTG-- scrupulously avoid failure-- get a bunch of sub maximal effort sets in, then that is one thing. But what I now understand to be your suggestion of simply going to failure day after day is more severe and a worse suggestion, imo.

If you were suggesting more orthodox GTG-- my objection would be less strenuous-- but I'd still point out that his numbers are still low enough that there is hardly a such thing as a sub-maximal set. So go ahead and compromise. Beat yourself up 1-2x a week, GTG a couple other days-- and still get plenty of rest. And then drop the negatives (to never or rare) once GTG becomes the clear best alternative.

And also, you hit the nail on the head with: Sam's dedicated and is going to get to a higher level quickly no matter how good or bad our advice-- simply because he's doing more pull-ups.

I've got a lot more to say on pull-ups, but I'll leave it here as this has already gotten too long.

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Id be interested in hearing what more you have to say as long as Sam doesn't mind us hijacking his log.

Yes my point was when you are taking pullups to failure its not really true failure, because you have alot of strength left in you for negatives.(which you wont be doing)

I stand by my opinion that doing his 4 max reps as intensily as possible for 6 days straight would be beneficial to his numbers when he came back and did them again on day 10. Its possibly less efficient then true GTG, maybe it doesnt even qualify as GTG, but it can be difficult/annoying to get to a chinup bar every half an hour.

Maybe im underestimating just how taxing they are.

[SamG]

9/6 - Workout A

Preworkout: 2m stationary bike

Squat

2x5x45
1x5x65
1x5x85
1x3x95

3x5x110 PR

Easy. Wei Yan took a video of my first set, then my camera battery died (oops). Unfortunately he took it in portrait orientation, so it plays back sideways. Not sure how to rotate the movie. I don't think it's worth posting, but IMHO my form looks better. I seem balanced, and my depth is good.

Bench

1x5x45
1x5x65
1x5x95

3x5x120 PR

3rd time's the charm. These felt pretty easy, actually. My form has improved. I arch my lower back, and I am starting to use the natural rebound at the bottom. (In case it's not clear, I'm NOT bouncing the bar off my chest.)

Deadlift

1x5x45
1x5x95
1x3x125
1x2x155

1x5x170 PR



My knees were red from where the knurling on the bar dug into them. I feel like a real goddamn weightlifter.

Pullups

1x2 (unassisted) PR
2x8 (assisted)

I am weaker at these than chins, but still a PR.

Cardio: 35m stationary bike

Great workout. PRs on everything.

[kidcolin]

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I am weaker at these than chins, but still a PR.

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pretty sure everyone is, at least beginners.

[SamG]

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Id be interested in hearing what more you have to say as long as Sam doesn't mind us hijacking his log.

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[img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

jk, I don't mind hijacks. Plus this is interesting.

[SamG]

Stupid deadlift question: When you guys warm-up, do you bother putting down plates? Or do you just start your warm-ups at 135+ so the bar is the right height?

Also, how do you guys feel about stretching before or after workouts?

[SmileyEH]

Sam I warm up with olympic lifts - mostly power snatches from the hang and overhead squats - all with just the bar. For dl I start with 135. Stretching beforehand isn't necessary - do dynamic stuff like leg swings (I love these) and arm windmills. After working out definitely stretch.