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  #1  
Old 11-27-2007, 08:57 AM
Wilpro Wilpro is offline
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Default 10nl: AK 3 way pot

Hey, first orbit of play on table, how is my line? Didn't want to build a big pot but wanted some value from my AK hitting flop.

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: $5
UTG: $11.40
MP: $12.40
Hero (CO): $9.85
BTN: $18.60
SB: $6.90

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG calls $0.10, MP folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $0.50</font>, BTN folds, SB calls $0.45, BB folds, UTG calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.60) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">UTG bets $0.50</font>, Hero calls $0.50, SB calls $0.50

Turn: ($3.10) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $1.60</font>, UTG calls $1.60, Hero calls $1.60

River: ($7.90) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">UTG bets $0.60</font>, Hero calls $0.60, SB calls $0.60
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  #2  
Old 11-27-2007, 09:36 AM
Jappejynx Jappejynx is offline
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Default Re: 10nl: AK 3 way pot

Reraise flop, always! You hit the ideal flop for your AK, you really should start building the flop...
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  #3  
Old 11-27-2007, 09:41 AM
Wilpro Wilpro is offline
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Default Re: 10nl: AK 3 way pot

If he rereraises then what do i do :&lt;
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:40 AM
Teddy_kgb Teddy_kgb is offline
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Default Re: 10nl: AK 3 way pot

flop raise and im ready to shoove here
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  #5  
Old 11-27-2007, 12:18 PM
hoyasaxa hoyasaxa is offline
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Default Re: 10nl: AK 3 way pot

sillyhead raise the flop and call a shove expecting to see a weaker ace 99.37% of the time

edit: or raise the turn, but for the love of everything holy get some money in the pot
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  #6  
Old 11-27-2007, 02:37 PM
Pokey Pokey is offline
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Default Re: 10nl: AK 3 way pot

I see little reason to raise the flop.

First of all, the donk-bettor is on our immediate right. If we raise we blow SB out of the pot for sure and we really announce that we've got an ace of some kind. I agree that we get called by weaker aces but we do NOT get called by weak underpairs that are drawing nearly dead.

Anybody who is behind right now is drawing to at most 2-3 outs; why wouldn't we want them to stick around? Worse yet, anybody with a 4 is going to announce their presence with authority if we raise, and then we're out lots of money (possibly even a stack).

Basically, we have much more EV against hands that bet and call than against hands that call a raise. I'm waiting for a later street to get some money in the middle, especially since I've got position. I think we're rarely ahead if we get it all in on a flop this dry, so I'm willing to take some time.

On the turn we've got a much better chance to make a raise. Now we're closing the action if we call. I'd probably make a smallish raise hoping for two callers again and making it easier to get all-in on the river: at this point I've got $7.25 behind after calling the turn bet and the pot has $7.90 in it. I'd probably raise to $5, leaving me with $3.75 behind and making the pot as large as $18.10, with an EASY crying call on the river for any opponent with an ace or an underpair. If I fold out all the competition at this point I'm not too unhappy -- the pot is large enough to be worth fighting for -- but if someone pushes I'm unhappy as I call it (I think I'm behind, but I'm ahead often enough that calling is still +EV relative to folding).

As played, I raise this river bet. We've got $6.65 behind after the call and the pot has $9.10 in it; I'm making it $4 to go and hoping to get called by weaker hands. I'm not sure I will get called, but I've got to at least make a play for it. I'm keeping the bet small because my line is going to look REALLY suspicious and freak out many potential callers; however, I just can't smooth-call that weak little bet and pretend I'm maximizing value. Worst case my raise loses me $0.60 in an overcall; best case it makes me an extra $6.80. That's a nice cost-benefit analysis. Again, I'm unhappily calling a push but I just can't find a fold here after I've committed most of my stack.
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  #7  
Old 11-27-2007, 03:09 PM
drsmooth drsmooth is offline
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Default Re: 10nl: AK 3 way pot

[ QUOTE ]
Didn't want to build a big pot

[/ QUOTE ]

Why the heck not? You have basically flopped the nuts... No one has AA and unless you're playing a couple of morons no one has a 4. Pokey makes a good argument for just calling flop but you HAVE to raise turn. This is a great board, your hand is still very very likely best. A4, A2, 22 is all I would be worried about, put them hands against the dozens of possible holdings you beat and building a pot is exactly what you want to be doing. You're almost certainly up against smaller aces. Get some money in there...


edit: I mean I would be worried about a more than just A4 as far as a 4 is concerned... this is 10nl after all. But my point still stands
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  #8  
Old 11-27-2007, 03:18 PM
gumpzilla gumpzilla is offline
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Default Re: 10nl: AK 3 way pot

You really should raise that flop. You can charge worse A's a lot here, and even some middling pocket pairs are likely to come along. Raise the flop, and then most likely get all the money in on the turn.

EDIT:

[ QUOTE ]
Basically, we have much more EV against hands that bet and call than against hands that call a raise. I'm waiting for a later street to get some money in the middle, especially since I've got position. I think we're rarely ahead if we get it all in on a flop this dry, so I'm willing to take some time.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? There are lots of As that won't fold at NL10 if it's an unknown. You will also fairly routinely see middling pocket pairs call a flop raise here. Since it's a raised pot, there aren't that many 4s that can be out there, and WA/WB doesn't really apply because opponents aren't generally aggressive enough at this level to be bluffing you heavily for three streets, a lot of the hands you're beating will call a bunch of streets, and you're going to probably stack off to a 4 anyway. Particularly in light of this last fact, keeping the pot small only punishes you by leaving value on the table to the many As that will call.

EDIT 2: The prospect of SB overcalling is maaaybe one argument against raising, but it's only .50. If he's got a hand he's probably calling your raise anyway, though, and he's not likely to be giving you value on later streets, so I think pumping the pot should be the priority.
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  #9  
Old 11-27-2007, 11:29 PM
SinkRox SinkRox is offline
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Default Re: 10nl: AK 3 way pot

He's made a 1/3 pot bet on the flop... YUK.. I won't stand for that... pump it to 2.10 - 2.70.

I just raise the flop and hope to get my stack in asap, you have so much value vs weaker aces, no point slowplaying imo, just get it in - they aint folding.
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