serious question

[HSB]

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Allow you allow multitabling?
How many? 2, 4, 8, Unlimited?

Have tight requirements on time to act, or be liberal?

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I combined these two because I would come up with some sort of system where initially you could open up as many tables as you want but if you do not act in a reasonable time then the number of tables you can open drops until slow actions are the exception.

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Allow unlimited datamining?

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No.

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Restrict hand histories to hands in which the player was dealt cards?

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Yes,

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Allow PAHUD? Forbid PAHUD type programs.

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Show table statistics in the lobby like % players to the flop, average size of pot?

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I guess. I don't really see where it matters one way or the other.

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Have a "buddy" list? Forbid a "buddy" list and take steps to prevent one being used?

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Have one with multiple categories so you can have one category for fishies and one for sharkies and one for actual friends.

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Allow players to transfer funds, or forbid it?

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Allow.

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Allow players to buy in with credit cards, or allow only debit cards or transfers from the dozens of e-wallets?

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Allow credit.

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BTW, I am disgusted with how little the PPA has done, while I can do plenty in my spare time.

Thanks,

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What does any of this have to do with the PPA or any legislation? The only thing I can even imagine legislators caring about is the credit thing and the only reason I would allow credit deposits is because all my competition will be. I'd support an effort to prevent sites from accepting credit deposits though I haven't a clue how that could work.

Tuff

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[Harv72b]

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Allow you allow multitabling?
How many? 2, 4, 8, Unlimited?

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I'd only allow it, thereby reducing the redundancy of the redundancy quotient.

I think 10 is a good number to cap multi-tabling at, perhaps more for MTTs. Those people saying that it should be capped at 4 or 2 or 6 or whatever are forgetting that Party allowed up to 10 tables at a time, and it was consistently the most popular, most donk-infested site around. At any rate, more tables at a time = more full time players = more tables running = more rake for me.

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Allow unlimited datamining?

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Yes. Whether I allow it or not, someone is going to figure out a way to do it eventually. And again, I would like to attract the full time players, HUDbots or not.

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Restrict hand histories to hands in which the player was dealt cards?

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Obviously not.

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Allow PAHUD? Forbid PAHUD type programs.

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Allow any program which does not disrupt the integrity of the game. I do not consider overlaying player statistics or allowing a player to see hands mucked at showdown without having to click the "last hand" link to be unfair.

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Show table statistics in the lobby like % players to the flop, average size of pot?

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Absolutely. I don't believe that a site which didn't at least offer average pot size information would ever take off.

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Have a "buddy" list? Forbid a "buddy" list and take steps to prevent one being used?

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Allow and incorporate one into my software. I think a lot of people fail to understand that many players, most even, do not use it as a "fish list" the way most of us do, but rather as a way to find actual buddies at the tables.

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Have tight requirements on time to act, or be liberal?

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15 seconds per action max, with an all-in protection system similar to what Party had (make players manually reset it after each use to discourage abuse, investigate allegations of disconnect abuse).

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Allow players to transfer funds, or forbid it?

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Allow unlimited interplayer transfers, again investigating allegations or appearances of abuse. Each deposit or withdrawal on the site is going to end up costing me money (unless I pass the costs on to my players, which I'd like to avoid doing as much as possible), but transfers from one player to another should be considerably cheaper for me. And I don't believe that very many recreational players, if any, are concerned about this issue.

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Allow players to buy in with credit cards, or allow only debit cards or transfers from the dozens of e-wallets?

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Allow credit card deposits, but with a relatively low initial deposit cap for player protection/public relations reasons. Say, $500 default per day, allowing new players to request an increase up to around $1000 (but not advertising this fact anywhere on the site). Similar to the system PokerStars uses.

[kdog]

Allow you allow multitabling?
How many? 2, 4, 8, Unlimited?... allow up to 4. More ruins the games and fleeces the recreational player too quickly.

Allow unlimited datamining? ... NO. You may have 1 more table than you are playing open with a 4 table max open at any one time. There is absolutely no need to "observe" 12 tables to decide which one to play.
Restrict hand histories to hands in which the player was dealt cards?... Yes
Allow PAHUD? Forbid PAHUD type programs.... Allow. This is not a problem without datamining.
Show table statistics in the lobby like % players to the flop, average size of pot?... Yes. Game selection is important and lobby stats are there for all players who choose to utilize them.
Have a "buddy" list? Forbid a "buddy" list and take steps to prevent one being used?... Allow. It's no big deal.

Have tight requirements on time to act, or be liberal?... Tight. On both regular and fast tables.

Allow players to transfer funds, or forbid it?... Forbid. No transfers = no scams and no railbird beggars.
Allow players to buy in with credit cards, or allow only debit cards or transfers from the dozens of e-wallets?... No credit cards.

[ChipFerFree]

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Allow you allow multitabling?
How many? 2, 4, 8, Unlimited?

Max 4

Allow unlimited datamining?

Hell no -- let's make this as close to live as possible

Restrict hand histories to hands in which the player was dealt cards?

Yes of course

Allow PAHUD? Forbid PAHUD type programs.

Forbid -- let's make this as close to live as possible

Show table statistics in the lobby like % players to the flop, average size of pot?

Hell no -- let's make this as close to live as possible


Have a "buddy" list? Forbid a "buddy" list and take steps to prevent one being used?

As long as you can hide yourself then this doesn't matter

Have tight requirements on time to act, or be liberal?
Someone mentioned a sliding scale -- i like that. Also think that that your time bank should be replenished after every break in large MTT's -- kinda like timeouts in football

Allow players to transfer funds, or forbid it?
between each other -- no -- this is dangerous and leaves the door open for government to legitimately suspect dirty clothing be washed at the site

Allow players to buy in with credit cards, or allow only debit cards or transfers from the dozens of e-wallets?
No Credit Cards -- let's be responsible people

Nice questions -- really like this thread

Tuff

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[mo42nyy]

not suprising almost everyone wants to allow pt or phud even though its awful for the game

[satya]

allow multitabling? Yes
How many? 2, 4, 8, Unlimited? Unlimited w/the time to act decreasing as active tables increase.

Allow unlimited datamining? No

Restrict hand histories to hands in which the player was dealt cards? Yes

Allow PAHUD? Forbid PAHUD type programs. Allow. More money for me. I want players multi-tabling. How else they gonna do it?

Show table statistics in the lobby like % players to the flop, average size of pot? yes

Have a "buddy" list? Forbid a "buddy" list and take steps to prevent one being used? Allow. Fish will lose all his money eventually. Buddy list simply expedites the process. I get my money quicker tyvm.

Have tight requirements on time to act, or be liberal? Moderate -with the exception for multi-tablers mentioned above.

Allow players to transfer funds, or forbid it? Allow

Allow players to buy in with credit cards, or allow only debit cards or transfers from the dozens of e-wallets?

No credit. Debit yes. No insta-cash sorta stuff. Verified funds only.

[pokahjokah]

Lets look at this, argument that multitabling Tags fleece the fish too quick. I am going to make a few assumptions:

1. The game is a 6mx NL game, that is what I am familiar with. (as well as Tuff)

2. A "fish" is someone that likes to play, hasn't taken any measures to get better, and doesnt think abuot strategy. As attrocious as Tuff is at 6max NL (by virtue of his videos), I wouldnt consider him a fish.

3. Besides the multi tablin' tags, the fish, there is also a decent amount of break even players, tuff fish type players (slight losers over the long haul).

4.Fish dont play more than 2 tables hardly ever.

5. They have no concept of BR management, and if they win a couple buyins they move up, and if they lose a couple, they may still move up from their "normal" game.

6. Just b/c you mulit table and you are a tag, doesnt mean you are a winner. You could play horrible post flop, or be playing at a level that is over your expertise at the moment.

Ok, now that I have the assumptions laid out, lets look at how multi tabling tags afect this envirnment. Tags allow more tables to be played at, b/c they are at more. Tony, thinks they slow down the game, thats debatable, but I will agree for this argument. And, while they may not be great winners, they do win more than the fish.

How does this change a fish's perspectives on the game? Most don't use PAHUD, or PT, so I seriously doubt he even recongizes the fact that everyone is playing tight. This is assuming that he knows what the hell a "tight" player is. The fish doesnt care about bankroll. He cares about gambooool. They ride swings that in a short period of time (see Renia) allow them to make a ton of money if running hot, while also riding swings that allow them to lose alot sometimes fast, sometimes slow. They aren't multitablers, so it is not like they care about the overall toughness of the limit they are playing. They are just donking it up at a table, moving up when they feel like it, and barely notcing opponents. I really don't see how MTT(multi tabling tags) affect them. Maybe some of the true gamblers that need a quick fix are slightly bothered by a slow table, but not enough for them to quit playing, probably just enough to make them move if it doesn't "feel" right.

So, who does the MTTs affect? The marginal and slightly losing player, as well as the not as skilled other multitablers that they are better than. See, I think tony is arguing that the games are bad for the fish, but that's not the case, the games are bad for the marginal poker players that used to thrive on fish. The only thing slowing down the fish is the entry to the marketplace (i.e. hard to get funded), but that is slowly being worked out.

Good multi tabling players only hurt other not so good multi tabling players. Perhaps that is why tuff is so bitter. I am not sure, but I doubt they affect the everyday clueless fish.

[ChipFerFree]

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Good multi tabling players only hurt other not so good multi tabling players. ... I am not sure, but I doubt they affect the everyday clueless fish.

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Huh -- I'm confused...

[pokahjokah]

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Good multi tabling players only hurt other not so good multi tabling players. ... I am not sure, but I doubt they affect the everyday clueless fish.

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Huh -- I'm confused...

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Fish operate indepent of "multi tablin tags" they lose their money regardless. They lose to others that make fewer mistakes than them, whether it be a slightly losing player, an avg. player, or a great player. Fish go busto regardless. The MTTs that Tuff is ALWAYS complaining about really, just mess him and players like him up, b/c he fails to adjust and get better.

Throughout all the Tuff fish posts, he consistently cites MTTs as the reason all the fish are gone. I don't think that is true for the reasons above.