Strategy question in Loose game

[lewdjunglist]

I know this is bad play to start...

This is a loose $1/2 home game. Min buy in is 80, max is 300....but tonight a few bought in for 500. At the time of the hand there are 9 people at the table.

I'm dealt KdKh pre flop in MP. I raise to 25 and get a caller in the SB, who is a LAG but is sometimes more passive. He's a huuuugee gambler though, definitely an action junky. I also get another caller from UTG. This guy is a little loose, but respects my tight play.

So the flop comes 7c4c3d

The action goes check check...and I check because I feel this is in the SB's neighborhood.

Turn is a Qs.
SB bets out $50. UTG folds and I wait trying to get a read on him. I say call and he blind bets $100.

River is a 6h

What do I do? I know there are quite a few leaks here.

[Javanewt]

As you probably know, I think not betting the flop was a mistake.

You know these players, though. Has he done this in the past? What happened? If you think the flop is in his territory, why check and let him draw? Why bother calling his $50 if you think he might already have you?

Do you normally c-bet when you have a hand? Does he put you on AK or a small pp?

As played, I would have raised if not pushed the turn.

With a LAG, I really don't want to lay this down, but I'm not pushing, either. I'd call his $100, kick myself for not betting the flop, and take notes.

[Khabbi]

As played you have to call that $100; not even close. LAG's play really looks like a semi-bluff here. Flush draw?

As you know, you should bet that flop and play accordingly.

[lewdjunglist]

He puts me on a small PP here, or maybe AK. I thought he smashed the flop w/ at least 2 pair...or if I let him catch a pair or draw he'd bluff big. After that river blind bet I felt like I should have put him all in on the turn, but of course it was too late. His blind bet was either a big bluff, or he thought his a pair of Queens had me beat.

Prety much I went from TAG play...to tight passive for no good reason. The river bringing 4 cards to a straight definitely didn't make jacking it up any sense at all. This guy was known to chase gutshots, even when he didn't take the lead.


The result is he turns over the Qd and says Queens...I turn over my Kings....then he slow rolls me with a 5d for the rivered straight. I feel like I lost the least amount of money on this because if I push on the turn he's very likely to call. If he didn't blind bet, I would have just folded to a river bet of $100.

[Khabbi]

Had I ever checked that flop I would have played the rest of the hand the same way you did because you took your self out of control of the hand.

Had I bet on the flop and got a call. I would definately have pushed that turn. The river would be irrelevant.

In the long run, I think you lost the most possible on this hand, rather than the least. Given the money basically went in before the river card. You lost money all over the place by not putting money in while you were ahead.

[lewdjunglist]

Part of me agrees with you, but part of me doesn't. This guy pushed all in preflop after an average player bet out 25 for 145 on top with 10s4s. He also cold called a 25 raise pre flop with 25o. This guy was an action junky. I think if I'm betting the flop...he's either calling or pushing. I could have lost less if he pushed though since he could have easy flopped a straight, set, or 2 pair on this board with his ATC range. Knowing this...I never should have checked the flop. Some of his play I hadn't seen until after this hand. It did pay off in the end when I dragged a $850 pot between him and another gambler who couldn't lay a set down to a straight and flush board.

I'm pretty sure I let his maniac play change my play. This bothers me because I've had bigger maniacs/ agrro players at my tables before and I still played a solid TAG game.

[TexRef]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm dealt KdKh pre flop in MP. I raise to 25 and get a caller in the SB, who is a LAG but is sometimes more passive. He's a huuuugee gambler though, definitely an action junky. I also get another caller from UTG. This guy is a little loose, but respects my tight play.

So the flop comes 7c4c3d

The action goes check check...and I check because I feel this is in the SB's neighborhood.


[/ QUOTE ]
This is clearly horrible. You have to bet -- at least $50 here, imho.

[ QUOTE ]

Turn is a Qs.
SB bets out $50. UTG folds and I wait trying to get a read on him. I say call and he blind bets $100.


[/ QUOTE ]
What could SB have checked on the flop that he is betting here? Probably just a queen... And the blind bet is most likely due to your very soft play of your kings -- there is no way he thinks you are that strong.

[ QUOTE ]

River is a 6h

What do I do? I know there are quite a few leaks here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Call and puke when he shows you a five and you let him get there.

[lewdjunglist]

I pretty much punched myself in the nuts for my weak play here, especially since such a draw heavy board. This opened my eyes up more to his range and play....which payed off later since I picked up a nice tell. Had I played like I normally do he would have never got there...or I would have made him pay heavily. I did puke shards of my own pelvis when he slow rolled me though.

Would you ever consider it +EV against a less draw heavy board to slow play here? I know certain situations it's good to slow play, but it is worth is just have an overpair to the board? I'm sure I know the answer, but I'd like others response.