Flopping the nutz at TS 20/40

alleatoryage · #1 02-04-2007, 07:02 PM

Reasonable game as far at Turning Stone higher limit hold 'em games go, though definately tougher than Borgata 20/40 games I've played (though this is not saying much).

I think the villain in this hand is a regular in the game. Probably has a reasonbably good win rate, but is getting abused pretty badly this session by rididculous hands.

Folded to Hero limps 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] MP1 (yeah, yeah...)
MP2 limps, CO limps, BTN (villian) limps, SB completes, BB checks

Flop: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Well that's cool. Checked to hero who bets. MP2 raises. Folded to BTN who three-bets. SB folds. BB folds. Hero Caps (?) MP2 folds

Turn: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero bets, BTN raises, Hero calls.

River: Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero checks, BTN bets, Hero calls.

How many mistakes did I make during this hand. The table was playing quite loose, so I thought playing fast would be fine, but the flop four-bet was probably over the top, yes?

dcb777 · #2 02-04-2007, 07:41 PM

the limp preflop is TERRIBLE. Open limping in this spot with unsuited connecters is really bad. I would checkraise the river and possibly fold to a 3 bet.

alleatoryage · #3 02-04-2007, 11:04 PM

Yeah, I know pre-flop is bad, and yet, somehow I don't care. I should probably work on developing a sane pre-flop strategy for limit full-ring.
In the meantime... you see no problem with capping the flop rather than sticking with three-bets?

dcb777 · #4 02-05-2007, 03:02 AM

On the flop I see no problem with making it 4 bets. He can't put you on the nuts. The turn card may be bad for you, but I am willing to raise a blank river to see how much it hurt you.

Entity · #5 02-05-2007, 03:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I know pre-flop is bad, and yet, somehow I don't care.

[/ QUOTE ]

What other advice can we give you? The hand is standard and boring postflop, and preflop is a huge error. If you don't care, I don't know why we should pretend that we do either.

dcb777 · #6 02-05-2007, 03:19 AM

I can't even imagine limping here preflop

alleatoryage · #7 02-05-2007, 03:22 AM

Fair enough, I suppose.
Mainly, I was wondering if people thought that I lost monies by knocking out MP2 on the flop and failing to jack it up at least once on the big streets.

UtzChips · #8 02-05-2007, 03:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I know pre-flop is bad, and yet, somehow I don't care. I should probably work on developing a sane pre-flop strategy for limit full-ring.
In the meantime... you see no problem with capping the flop rather than sticking with three-bets?

[/ QUOTE ]

The only reason for not capping on the Flop would be because you believe it will slow down the action on the Turn.

UtzChips · #9 02-05-2007, 04:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fair enough, I suppose.
Mainly, I was wondering if people thought that I lost monies by knocking out MP2 on the flop and failing to jack it up at least once on the big streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

You lost probably at most, 1.5 BB from MP2 unless he had Queens or 97s.

Here is the way I play a hand that has turned into "less than the Nutz" against one opponent:

I put less money in the pot than my opponent would if we had each other's hands. That way, when I lose, I actually win. However, I play live in local games against the same 35-45 guys.

In your hand, can you imagine the Button limping with 88? I don't know of many players who would in our game.
Does Villian know you're capable of playing 76o in MP, or is he clueless as to what you have?
If the answer to those two questions is no, then you should have raised the Turn. I would risk being up against 4's full or quad 5's.

I can recall a hand where I had Kings full of Queens on the Turn. I had KK in my hand. I bet, Villian raised, I re-raised, he RAIZED! I announced that was quad Queens v. K's full and called him down and sure enough that's what he had.
I had been playing against that guy for two years. That was two and 1/2 yrs ago. I hardly ever call him down anymore when I have a solid read on him.
So much of my long term profit comes from playing against a lone opponent with less than the nutz, slightly less aggressive than they would, when I'm not sure I have the best hand.
Of course, how many outs I have to improve to the best hand factors in also. Those are the questions I'm asking myself when I have a situation such as yours.