Convert me.

[Misfire]

I've been libertarian for years. AC seems a very tempting next step in my own political evolution. This forum obv. has done a lot to make me consider some of my own assumptions about the necessity of the state. I'm still resistant to the idea of a total absence of the state (I mean, who would build ROADS?!?!? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]), so it's time to try and push me over the edge. Can you make me an anarchist?

I'm planing to purchase a number of AC books in the near future to see if anyone's argument can seriously convince me that the absence of the state would be preferable to a minimal state. First on my list I think is Anarchy, State, and Utopia by Robert Nozick.

I guess my question to the hard-core AC crowd is first, is AS&U a good start? What other books/sources do you recommend to really lay out the AC philosophy and convert the skeptical?

[calmB4storm]

What specifically do you currently believe should be the state's role in society?

Personally, reading a ton of articles on Mises.org was enough to "convert" me. Maybe we can find some articles that address the specific areas that you aren't quite convinced would work w/o the state.

[Misfire]

[ QUOTE ]
What specifically do you currently believe should be the state's role in society?

Personally, reading a ton of articles on Mises.org was enough to "convert" me. Maybe we can find some articles that address the specific areas that you aren't quite convinced would work w/o the state.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not exactly sure at this point. I mean, the tired argument about roads has been long debunked. Matters of law and order seem to be a stronger argument for a state--police, courts, prisons, etc. I know this could turn into a "What would AC do about X?" thread, but that's not what I'm getting at. I know nobody knows exactly what would happen sans state, but I guess I'm looking for a more fundamental understanding of AC and why I should trust it to be better than statism in all or almost all areas.

I'm sure most of my assumptions about the state are things I've just accepted as given my whole life, so now I'm looking to challenge those assumptions and see if any actually stand up.

[BCPVP]

A,S & U would probably not convince you to support anarchism, since Nozick himself rejected it (unless his style puts you off so much you convert out of spite [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]). Ethics of Liberty and For a New Liberty convinced me, but those are free and also approach AC from the a natural rights/moral perspective. So if you're a utilitarian at heart, those may not be so convincing.

[Misfire]

[ QUOTE ]
A,S & U would probably not convince you to support anarchism, since Nozick himself rejected it (unless his style puts you off so much you convert out of spite [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]). Ethics of Liberty and For a New Liberty convinced me, but those are free and also approach AC from the a natural rights/moral perspective. So if you're a utilitarian at heart, those may not be so convincing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I was misinformed about AS&U. The descriptions of Rothbard's books seem to equate AC with libertarianism. Which is it?

Another book that caught my eye was The Machinery of Freedom by David D. Friedman. Thoughts?

[DrunkHamster]

AS&U is a good book, but as others have said I don't think it will push you over the edge towards full on AC (if nothing else because Nozick argues for an ultra minimal state). You might also find the style a bit too much - it is very philosophically flashy, which I know some people find very irritating. However, there are some great arguments in there, in particular the demolition of the whole Rawlsian original position and the "liberty upsets patterns" Wilt Chamberlain argument.

The Machinery of Freedom is also great. It's essentially a defence of AC from entirely utilitarian grounds (without any Austrian economics to boot) - and you get the impression Friedman doesn't care much for the whole natural rights approach either. So if you're all in favour of AC in principle, but have some doubts about its practicality, this is the book to read.

[Nielsio]

OP,

I made this a while back in order to respond to questions such as yours:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...page=&vc=1

My suggestion would be to thoroughly go through that (including reading/listening to all the references).


If that doesn't do it for you then I'm pretty sure that it's not far away in the abstract ideas of the state that you should looking into but things much closer to home. (check out this to follow up on that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCAT4oob9hs )


Good luck!

[Misfire]

[ QUOTE ]
The Machinery of Freedom is also great. It's essentially a defence of AC from entirely utilitarian grounds (without any Austrian economics to boot) - and you get the impression Friedman doesn't care much for the whole natural rights approach either. So if you're all in favour of AC in principle, but have some doubts about its practicality, this is the book to read.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's about right.

[pvn]

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Can you make me an anarchist?

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[Misfire]

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[ QUOTE ]
Can you make me an anarchist?

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Cute, but I really expected more from you.