AP thread 87.1 - waiting on the statement ITT

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"On a side note, a plane carrying Absolute Poker executives from Panama City, Panama to Costa Rica nearly crashed Wednesday evening following two aborted landings."

Anyone else LOL at that

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here's the funniest part of that. earlier in that piece they tell us Absolute Poker denies those guys are involved with the site any more.

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Yea, I mean, I don't think they are "technically" involved with AP itself. But what the [censored] does that even mean? It's a bunch of [censored].

In case it isn't perfectly obvious, a bunch of AP employees tell me that Scott Tom has been in and out of the CR office all year. He's still involved.

It's so misleading and retarded to say he isn't a part of AP anymore.

[KurtSF]

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just in... gambling911 proves once again they are useful

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OMG, according to this link AP are now claiming Scott Tom was never CEO. lol

[Bulletproof Monk]

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This whole ordeal has taught me alot about people in different ways. Also that humor(no trolling doesnt count eskimo) is always nice even in serious situations.

so ill just chime in like the rest, good work -everyone- and lets hope this [censored] gets sorted out and that people pays for this.

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wtf................. lol

who are you?

[pokerstudAA]

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Someone dropped the ball when they put that French wedding album online. Tons of the people pictured fit the description of people that don't want their pictures out there.

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Thats why they got so pissed so quickly and send out an all CAPS MESSAGE. Funny. Hopefully some people saved those photos because we certainly know how bad it tilts them. If they don't come clean we are definately barking up the right tree.


"HILT TATUM IS COMPLETLEY UNCONECTED WITH THIS CASE - HE HAS NEVER BEEN THE CFO - HIS WIFE AND FAMILY ARE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS INVESTIGATION - THE COMPANY IS TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING - I URGE YOU TO CONTACT THE MODS AND HAVE ALL PICTURES REMOVED - PLEASE TRY AND HELP THIS BEYOND THE CALL - AND THEY ARE AS INNOCENT AS ANYONE. "

[Bulletproof Monk]

also:

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Tom himself has remained in hiding.

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awesome.

[Dan Druff]

Can't wait to see the statement tomorrow. I am afraid that, like everything else from AP we've seen so far, it will be at least somewhat disappointing.

Now that we can expect a mea culpa from AP, along with the apparent blame being placed upon Scott Tom and AJ Green where it (at least partially) belongs, we need several other things before this whole matter is complete.

Among them...

1) We need a statement and apology from AP regarding their five-week campaign of lies and misinformation. Clearly they were aware of this from the start, since at least two of the eight accounts involved were registered directly to top-level AP employees. The story of "We did an initial investigation and found nothing" obvious no longer holds the slightest bit of water. It is simply not possible anymore. Unless they admit a cover-up prior to this point, anything they say should be ignored and scoffed at.

2) There needs to be some sort of TRULY NEUTRAL arbitrator involved who will investigate claims of superuser abuse up to this point. That is, if you have a specific opponent or tournament you need examined, this neutral party (i.e. NOT an AP employee or KGC representative) will be given access to obtain the appropriate hand histories and evaluate them. This is the only way to put to bed numerous baseless accusations (I have seen many levied over the past week), yet will catch anything else shady that had been going on. BTW, notice that STUCKINPGH, who officially requested his hand histories from 2/15/06 over 2 days ago, has received absolutely nothing.

3) Related to point #1 -- AP needs to explain why we were lied to. They also need to explain what exactly caused them to finally come clean.

4) We need to know exactly how the cheating occurred. What "security flaw" was taken advantage of? How has it been corrected? Who were the eight cheating accounts registered to? What was the point of the chip dumping?

5) This one is perhaps the most important. Those affected by the cheating need to be properly compensated. When I speak of "properly compensated", I don't just mean reimbursed for direct losses to GRAYCAT et. all. I will break this down later in this post.

6) We need updates regarding legal action taken against the offending parties, along with verifiable information to ensure that these claims of legal action are actually occurring.

7) New (albeit minor) dramabomb I have been holding back: Those at the 2006 WSOP probably remember an AP booth in front of the Rio Amazon room, where they were giving away bags of popcorn. You were asked to give $1 for each popcorn bag, which was promised to go to a specific Las Vegas charity. According to a reliable source, this money, which added up to $10,000, was simply stolen by Scott Tom and friends, and never given to the charity! The source also told me that a longtime AP employee quit over this matter. While arguably minor compared to the 7-figure sum stolen in this scandal, this incident was despicable and cheated a good charity out of $10,000 of promised money. Since AP is all about repairing their image at the moment, I figured I'd take the time to right this wrong. NOTICE TO AP: If my reliable source was somehow incorrect about this, let me know and tell me which charity received the money. I will personally verify your claim and publicly apologize if wrong about this. However, I would be shocked if this information I was given was incorrect, given the high degree of reliability of this particular source.

Now, back to the compensation structure:

Consider the following hypothetical two $200/$400 hands:

HAND #1:
DAN DRUFF JhJs
GRAYCAT 4d5d

PREFLOP:
DRUFF RAISES TO $400, GRAYCAT CALLS $400, BLINDS FOLD

FLOP:
Jd9d9h

DRUFF BETS $200. GRAYCAT FOLDS.

NET RESULT OF HAND: DRUFF WINS $700, GRAYCAT LOSES $400


HAND #2:
DAN DRUFF: AsKs
GRAYCAT: 6d2c

PREFLOP: DRUFF RAISES TO $400, GRAYCAT 3-BETS to $600, DRUFF CAPS to $800, GRAYCAT CALLS.

FLOP:
Qs9s2h

DRUFF BETS $200, GRAYCAT RAISES TO $400, DRUFF 3 BETS to $600, GRAYCAT CAPS TO $800

TURN:
4c

DRUFF BETS $200, GRAYCAT RAISES TO $400, DRUFF CALLS.

RIVER:
7h

DRUFF CHECKS, GRAYCAT BETS $200, DRUFF CALLS.
GRAYCAT WINS $2500, DRUFF LOSES $2200

NET FROM THESE TWO HANDS: DRUFF LOSES $1500

So in the above model, if these were the only two hands we played, I would be entitled to $1500, right? WRONG!! This is because GRAYCAT avoided giving action when he flopped a drawing-dead flush draw in hand #1. As it is written in many great poker books, "A bet saved is a bet earned!"

Therefore, we should not only be compensated for money that GRAYCAT and friends won by being superusers -- we should also get compensated by what they saved by NOT PUTTING IN ACTION WHEN BEHIND OR DEAD when normal users would have.

Of course, it is hard to quantify the above, which is why some ADDITIONAL PREMIUM (percentage) above and beyond our net losses needs to be figured into the compensation equation. People who played in those games and had net wins against GRAYCAT also need to be compensated in some way, because they might have won LESS as a result of the superuser capabilities of GRAYCAT. This should not be overlooked.

[tolbiny]

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just in... gambling911 proves once again they are useful

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The article says that guy's name is Juan, but Nat said a source confirmed it as John Ethan.

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Not sure if your leveling, but there are areas where Juan could be pronounced "John".

[ohead]

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This whole ordeal has taught me alot about people in different ways. Also that humor(no trolling doesnt count eskimo) is always nice even in serious situations.

so ill just chime in like the rest, good work -everyone- and lets hope this [censored] gets sorted out and that people pays for this.

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wtf................. lol

who are you?

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just someone who hates trolls who take sensitive [censored] over the top "just because"


now lets leave that topic.

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"Why would Scott risk millions per year just to steal ~1mil" - Loosely paraphrased from multiple ignorant people.

Well since 10K is plenty to get this piece of [censored] drooling over a scam (and from a [censored] charity, no less), it's pretty clear this sociopath has absolutely no regard for his reputation.

[NNNNOOOOONAN]

todd,

much agreed. do you have some sort of model for figuring out that percentage?