WTF just happened... need ruling

[harper]

Local game $1-$2 blinds. Buy in for $100 and this hand is the second one I play.
Hero raises to $12 UTG with QsQc, villain in 5 seat calls, all others fold. Flop Kc Qd 8d. Hero checks, villain bets $30. Hero pauses, clearly states "all-in" ....dealer upon hearing this inexplicably burns and turns 4th street without allowing villain to act. 4th street is 8c filling me up. The table is in an uproar now, villain doesn't know my holdings and says "I call", flips over Ac As. Two dealers who were watching the table action jump in to try to make sense of it all. They leave the 8c on the board burn and deal 5th street Jc. Then remove the 8c from 4th street reshuffle and with no burn redeal 4th street. 10s...giving villain broadway straight. I was obviously salty for awhile and the dealer seemed genuinely confused and sorry, but was this the right way to handle this situation?

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
They leave the 8c on the board burn and deal 5th street Jc. Then remove the 8c from 4th street reshuffle and with no burn redeal 4th street.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, other than handling it a little strangely, the two dealers handled this correctly. The original river card, after the burn as they would have, replaces the 4th street card. That card, the 8, is shuffled back into the deck and the new river is dealt without a burn card.

They only forgot the KITN for the dealer.

Now, even though the Aces called AFTER the 8 was displayed, it doesn't change the dealing correction that they used.

Tough break. "All in" could have sounded like "call" if the dealer isn't paying strict attention- my guess is, that's what happened here.

Lesson for the day- keep your eye on the dealer and yell "FREEZE!" if he tries to misdeal.

[harper]

Thanks L.L. Seems as though it was handled correctly. Dealer was a charity volunteer working for tips. Should have known something was wrong with him when I sat down and saw the first board he dealt came out from right to left. I was, however, commended by my mates on not flipping the table or spilling my captain. Only a hundo. Could have been worse.

[Richard Tanner]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They leave the 8c on the board burn and deal 5th street Jc. Then remove the 8c from 4th street reshuffle and with no burn redeal 4th street.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, other than handling it a little strangely, the two dealers handled this correctly. The original river card, after the burn as they would have, replaces the 4th street card. That card, the 8, is shuffled back into the deck and the new river is dealt without a burn card.

They only forgot the KITN for the dealer.

Now, even though the Aces called AFTER the 8 was displayed, it doesn't change the dealing correction that they used.

Tough break. "All in" could have sounded like "call" if the dealer isn't paying strict attention- my guess is, that's what happened here.

Lesson for the day- keep your eye on the dealer and yell "FREEZE!" if he tries to misdeal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a little confused LL, are you saying (what should've happend):
Take the 8 back into the stub
Shuffle cards
deal no turn (no burn, already done)
burn
deal river

Because isn't that what should happen. It seems as if your saying burn twice, then don't burn before the river.

Cody

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
I was, however, commended by my mates on not flipping the table or spilling my captain. Only a hundo. Could have been worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Classy reaction... though I understand the toss the table urge
:P

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
The original river card, after the burn as they would have, replaces the 4th street card. That card, the 8, is shuffled back into the deck and the new river is dealt without a burn card[ QUOTE ]

I'm a little confused LL, are you saying (what should've happend):
Take the 8 back into the stub
Shuffle cards
deal no turn (no burn, already done)
burn
deal river


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

No- I read it again and didn't interpret it the way you just did, but since I wrote it, that means squat.

You do as you intend and as the dealers did (almost)- pull aside the 8, burn and turn the river card in place of the now-removed turn card. Shuffle the 8 (but none of the other burn cards) back into the deck so the 8 has a chance to come out again.

Deal the river without burning, since you already did that by accident when dealing the 8.

Better, Cody?

[Rottersod]

Even though technically the rules state that the 8 would be taken off lets examine what happened here:

Hero goes AI with a set of Queens. Dealer doesn't hear and turns over the 8 and then villain says I call.

Why should Hero be penalized since all his action was complete? Villian didn't have to announce call. The fact that he did when he saw the 8 means that he still felt his AA was good.

[harper]

Rottersod... I was 100% with you in my line of thinking as this all unfolded. I was obviously biased in my thinking (and a little psd off) but does his call after the 8 hit make a difference? I guess I would like to assume they did it correctly, and according to L.L. it sounds like they did, but do you have a different opinion? The hand in question wasn't really a big deal, but I could see it happening in my own home game someday, and I'd like to know exactly what to do. Thanks all.

[Rottersod]

[ QUOTE ]
Rottersod... I was 100% with you in my line of thinking as this all unfolded. I was obviously biased in my thinking (and a little psd off) but does his call after the 8 hit make a difference? I guess I would like to assume they did it correctly, and according to L.L. it sounds like they did, but do you have a different opinion? The hand in question wasn't really a big deal, but I could see it happening in my own home game someday, and I'd like to know exactly what to do. Thanks all.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that hand had played out like it did in my home game I would have spoken up and asked that it be ruled that the 8 plays. The guys I play with probably would have agreed and we would have gone on and had an enjoyable evening. My reasoning for doing it this way is that the villain clearly thought he was ahead when he called your all in so you shouldn't be penalized for the dealers mistake. The fact that the villain did make the call before it was straightened out means that the 8 should have played.

In fact, the more I think about it the more I realize that you could have made a good case in a casino that the 8 should have played since the villain made the call after seeing the card and your action was already finished for the rest of the hand. I'm going to ask a couple of local floors in LA next weekend.

[nowags]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Rottersod... I was 100% with you in my line of thinking as this all unfolded. I was obviously biased in my thinking (and a little psd off) but does his call after the 8 hit make a difference? I guess I would like to assume they did it correctly, and according to L.L. it sounds like they did, but do you have a different opinion? The hand in question wasn't really a big deal, but I could see it happening in my own home game someday, and I'd like to know exactly what to do. Thanks all.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that hand had played out like it did in my home game I would have spoken up and asked that it be ruled that the 8 plays. The guys I play with probably would have agreed and we would have gone on and had an enjoyable evening. My reasoning for doing it this way is that the villain clearly thought he was ahead when he called your all in so you shouldn't be penalized for the dealers mistake. The fact that the villain did make the call before it was straightened out means that the 8 should have played.

In fact, the more I think about it the more I realize that you could have made a good case in a casino that the 8 should have played since the villain made the call after seeing the card and your action was already finished for the rest of the hand. I'm going to ask a couple of local floors in LA next weekend.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with rottersod on this one. The 8 should have stayed, because he made a decision based on it. Not sure how an actual casino would rule this though.