Will my limit game improve?

Sushiglutton · #1 10-29-2007, 06:56 AM

I'm thinking about learning NL. I have some of the books (not 'Professional No-Limit Hold 'em: Volume I', I need that one I guess?).

I love limit and have absolutely no intention of quitting that game. What I wonder is, do you think my limit game will improve by learning NL? If so, in what way?

Man of Means · #2 10-29-2007, 10:50 AM

Your question is a good one, which may have good answers. I can attest that playing NL has taken the fear right out of playing limit if there ever was any. There's a 12% chance he might checkraise me on the turn? pfftt..

In general, when you play NLHE, play stud, play omaha-8, you're learning to play "POKER" not just one variation of it. So you expand your mind in that way. Try playing NL and then LIMIT in the same session. When you sit at the limit table you may feel like your head's under water and your arms are in a straitjacket but you have to adjust. Or you may feel great about getting to raise so much without having to worry about folding to a big reraise.

"Professional No Limit" helped me to realize some things about the importance of position and how it affects play of the hand. And the idea of SPR's just makes things so much easier. So yes give it a look.

Alobar · #3 10-29-2007, 02:25 PM

NL will improve your limit game an INSANE amount. Because after getting used to NL you wont ever want to play limit again, and that is a big improvement [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

6471849653 · #4 10-29-2007, 03:29 PM

One plays limit with the feel, nl with the thinking. After nl one is thinking when playing limit, and after limit one is feeling when playing nl.

6471849653 · #5 10-29-2007, 03:30 PM

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One plays limit with the feel, nl with the thinking. After nl one is thinking when playing limit, and after limit one is feeling when playing nl.

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That is the greatest baloney I have ever read. You are an idiot, right?

6471849653 · #6 10-29-2007, 03:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
That is the greatest baloney I have ever read. You are an idiot, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fack you, [censored].

fabadam · #7 10-29-2007, 05:42 PM

I don't think it helps. The games are just so different.
For me, limit is about finding tiny bits of value in marginal situations, even against donks much of the time.
Whenever I return to limit now (like yesterday), it takes me 2 orbits to realize you can't really bluff anyone out by repping the flush, and similar stuff.

Especially limit 6-max now, it really is sophisticated poo-flinging much ot the time. Limit has much more choices, but they're all about value.

NL is more about reads, since the ranges are so vastly different per villain. Less choices, but more important ones.

bravos1 · #8 10-29-2007, 06:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That is the greatest baloney I have ever read. You are an idiot, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fack you, [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

yawn... accounts like this are so asinine...

bravos1 · #9 10-29-2007, 07:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it helps. The games are just so different.
For me, limit is about finding tiny bits of value in marginal situations, even against donks much of the time.
Whenever I return to limit now (like yesterday), it takes me 2 orbits to realize you can't really bluff anyone out by repping the flush, and similar stuff.

Especially limit 6-max now, it really is sophisticated poo-flinging much ot the time. Limit has much more choices, but they're all about value.

NL is more about reads, since the ranges are so vastly different per villain. Less choices, but more important ones.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree.. I think playing NL can definitely help your limit game.

When playing NL, you can pass up some thin equity because you can make it up fairly easily. This is not so true in limit and you really begin to see where those small value bets in limit are. I think coming from limit to NL, you will quickly see situations where you routinely bet/raise/peel in limit wash away in NL and turn into calls/folds (though sometimes peeling in NL is correct when it would be a fold in limit). Getting a better understanding of this dynamic will hopefully open your eyes to better value plays in limit.

Also, somewhat poor limit players can really gain by playing NL. IMO, new players to NL should really be tightening up their holdings so they do not get raped repeatedly. This can only be good for the poor limit player whose largest leak is typically playing too loose and the fear of facing monster bets can actually tighten a player up especially if they've been bitten a few times.

There are several aspects of both games that actually do complement the other quite well. Also learning different games, even different game types altogether (ie lolmaha/stud/badugi/etc) can really help in the way a player actually thinks about poker.

fabadam · #10 10-31-2007, 07:49 PM

I disagree.. I think playing NL can definitely help your limit game.

When playing NL, you can pass up some thin equity because you can make it up fairly easily. This is not so true in limit and you really begin to see where those small value bets in limit are. I think coming from limit to NL, you will quickly see situations where you routinely bet/raise/peel in limit wash away in NL and turn into calls/folds (though sometimes peeling in NL is correct when it would be a fold in limit). Getting a better understanding of this dynamic will hopefully open your eyes to better value plays in limit.

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On further introspection and experience, I have to agree. My 1st experience of playing limit after returning from NL was that I just couldn't fold anymore: I was always getting good odds it seems. Of course, I really wasn't, because my reads (i.e., the ranges I put them on) were just way off base for limit.
When you learn to re-adjust, and LOOK AGAIN AT THE SITUATION FROM VILLAIN's VIEWPOINT, NL actually forms a good experience: it is basically enriching your overall poker feel.

I have now, on several occasions, called down on reads where I just felt I shouldn't, but couldn't bring myself to folding. Every single time, I was beat when the money went in.

So yes, my personal experience now (just a few nights of analysed play) is that NL van help your limit, but only if you are able to use your overall knowledge to make better estimates about the overall poker situation. That is not easy.
In limit, you still have to call down, or even value bet 2-pair situations that would be an insta-muck at NL.
Also, you still should value bet hands that check to induce a bluff at NL (I make that mistake at limit at least 2 times/100 now, I think).
There's more.

So yes, on further experimentation I agree, tat it can help, but only because it simply helps you in being a better overall poker player.

The differences are so large, that almost all automatic moves of NL, do not apply at limit, and vice versa.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, somewhat poor limit players can really gain by playing NL. IMO, new players to NL should really be tightening up their holdings so they do not get raped repeatedly. This can only be good for the poor limit player whose largest leak is typically playing too loose and the fear of facing monster bets can actually tighten a player up especially if they've been bitten a few times.

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I've only ever been able to play really TAG, when I was playing strict SSHE by the book. Ever since going mostly 6-max, I've been a semi-LAG, and it fits me well, so I don't really know.