The flop I am looking for is....

[Fonkey123]

oh wait wtf you have QJ thats gay yeah i'd take QJ usually then

[jlocdog]

[ QUOTE ]
guys, who cares about winning big pots? i like to win the most on average every time i am dealt two cards

[/ QUOTE ]

Was waiting for someone to say this. Nice one Justin.

[thac]

Yeah you're probably right that they'll think that we can have TP on a KT5, which is why I said a 'disguised hand'. We can have 86s I guess - I didn't mean it like the only thing we can have is TP, but to the opponents in this hand there is one high card so if we come alive on multiple streets we 'must have it'. That's what I meant. Is that way off?

[jlocdog]

Fonkey- Really, that one denomination increase changed your emphatic opinion one way to the other. How often does he show up with QT that we can think like that anyways?

[sh58]

you want the OESD cos they are gonna fold most hands anyway so you might as well have outs to the nuts, cos if they play back at you they have mostly got you beat

[Nick Royale]

Is this live? In that case we obviously prefer the 2nd flop. If it's online I think I prefer the 1st flop.


When I c-bet the KTx-board they will fold alot, when they don't it implies I have decent implied odds on average.

When I c-bet the Qxx-board they will also fold alot. This means that the fact that I actually have a decent hand doesn't mean too much, because when I'm called it's most often by Qx (AQ-QT) in which case my hand lost a great bunch of it's value.

So the few times we make it past the flop I'd rather have a hand with great potential than top pair decent kicker. On the 1st flop we'll hit the nuts almost 30%, on the 2nd flop if we're up against something like AQ-QT we only have 30% equity anyway.


If these guy will call with mid PPs, middle and bottom pair etc obv the 2nd flop is way, way better. So it depends on how to interpret the reads...

[Unknown Soldier]

[ QUOTE ]
US- 222 and 678 monotone are not options though. And I'm not sure either flop offers anything simple. And the question is, "Which flop do you prefer, and why?"

[/ QUOTE ]

so it's the flop which has the most value? Well 2 then. Both the flops i mentioned are redic easy c/f's.

don't want to sound like a [censored], but i think this is a pretty pointless discussion [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] i mean 1 probably leads to easier decisions, although these guys aren't going to put you in any tough spots anyway, and 2 has the most value because you have top pr and given your read pps will be calling a couple of bets.

[Fonkey123]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this live? In that case we obviously prefer the 2nd flop. If it's online I think I prefer the 1st flop.


When I c-bet the KTx-board they will fold alot, when they don't it implies I have decent implied odds on average.

When I c-bet the Qxx-board they will also fold alot. This means that the fact that I actually have a decent hand doesn't mean too much, because when I'm called it's most often by Qx (AQ-QT) in which case my hand lost a great bunch of it's value.

So the few times we make it past the flop I'd rather have a hand with great potential than top pair decent kicker. On the 1st flop we'll hit the nuts almost 30%, on the 2nd flop if we're up against something like AQ-QT we only have 30% equity anyway.


If these guy will call with mid PPs, middle and bottom pair etc obv the 2nd flop is way, way better. So it depends on how to interpret the reads...

[/ QUOTE ]

This sums up my thoughts. I wasn't aware people call down with mid pocket pairs...

[thac]

Oh I thought this was online too.

[jlocdog]

US- Sorry you feel that way. Not sure why you enetered discussion if you feel it to be pointless. Also, I meant neither of the flops I offered are simple.

Nick- Your post is a good one. But I don't think I play so exploitable that my TPGK hand = ATC. Also, I don't agree that my hands value is the same as ATC after either one of these flops.