PNL examples, "The Fundamentals"

[BobboFitos]

I thought the book was tremendous - Finally got a copy/able to read it, so am happy I did so. Matt Flynn is also a friend of mine, so this post is by NO MEANS a criticism of him or the book. That said, I found issue with some of the hand examples, and figured i'd post them here, and get the ball rolling: (If this was done already in another forum, so be it, figured SSNL was the most appropriate)

This quiz takes place on Pg. 87

hand 2, 50bbs you have 66. you call a 3xbb raise and flop 7 5 4r. the authors say the best play is to shove, but in actuality the best play is to call and call all in on the turn. generally shoving wont have any pos play, except getting all in with 56 or 64 (which is rare) - these hands typically will get all in on the turn anyway. given those odds it's very rare (and generally impossible) to make villain fold a better hand (7x or overpair) therefore inducing the 2nd barrel shove is much better. even though you typically cede 25% ish pot equity to overcards (or for the 61 dollar pot, thats 15ish$) inducing a 2nd barrel has mroe value. this is one of those spots where you're committed but lack any true folding equity; if you had a hand like 96o, where you would gain from making villain fold ace high (also, you cant profitably call all in on the turn if it blanks!) then the proper move is to shove on the flop.

for hand 3, with the 6s again, facing a tight players raise, i agree that fold is the correct move, but the authors are missing two key elements of the hand. the first is that even a straightforward player here will have a semibluff of his own often; and since you have 2 6s, this points towards clubs. getting all in on essentially a flip with the dead money of the pfr and preflop is really not bad. the second is that you are NEVER in bad shape; this player just wont have a straight EVER (very few 6s in the deck, and the only reasonable 68s hand he could play has 2 combos) and since your set draw is live against 2 of the three sets, this is typically a slightly behind/chop syndrom with overlay, which means the decision to shove (even if they never fold, which is fine) is much closer then it appears. (and if i was in a gambly mood, i'd gun it in)

hand 4 (page 89 now) the authors have another option which is what i'd do largely. (Id bump it up preflop quite frequently) but that is to underbet the pot on the flop. basically, encourage all gutshots to come along as well as midpair or whatnot. the check because you pick up outs (just an obvious gutshot) typically wont be enough to warrant giving the freebie (or TAKING the freebie) vs. taking the pot down... I'd generally bet there.

in hand 5 vs the wild player, the best play is to installment plan. the authors suggest betting 150 itno 183 or moving in (260 behind). betting 150 puts 483 and 110 behind, but may lose your customer on the turn; betting half pot (say, 90) creates 360ish pot with 170 behind, which typically accomplishes the task alot better.

hand 6 it's too premature to pot control in a 4way pot on the flop. the best play is to bet and generally fold if button raises, since he is the one who needs to worry about the people to act (esp. the small stack) who will certainly commit with many holdings (therefore making it unlikely you just got bluffraised) it's very rare to create a scenario where not cbetting is better then cbetting here.

hand 10 is too simplistic (AQo facing a reraise with position) in a live full ring game i'd lean more towards folding, but online, shorthanded, etc. you're giving up a little bit by folding. another option as well is to 4bet/fold to shove.

[Sunny Mehta]

Hi Bobbo!

Thanks a lot for the detailed post. Can you do me a favor and repost it in the PNL study group in uNL? The thread for Fundamentals In Practice is here:

link

thanks man...

-S

[Matt Flynn]

Hi Rob!

Good to hear from you yesterday. I'll respond in the other thread work permitting today. Some of this is game anticipation: these are examples from the fundamentals section containing routine stuff like "Commitment" and "Pot Control." So the play in the examples is inherently geared more for beginner's games. I'll have to read them again to say more.

Commerce was sick over the weekend.

Matt