Pocket pair 99

Bona · #1 09-17-2007, 05:41 PM

I'm posting this because I questioned my play as it was happening and then I looked back at it after the session and thought it might be OK so I didn't post it. Now I see some discussion in other posts about pocket pairs that makes me think my judgement may have been off in a spot or two. I'll put in my thought process so if I got it wrong you can tell me why. Plz.

I had only been at this 6max table for about ten hands. I picked it because it showed loose in the lobby 57 VP$IP 5+BB pot av. So far it seemed to be as advertized with everyone playing loose but not real aggressive. I hadn't played a hand past the flop yet.

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls.

I raised here because I thought I can win with this often enough that it was a value raise. Anybody think I should just complete here?

Flop: (11 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, MP calls, CO calls, Button folds.

Well we didn't hit the flop but only one OC and I expect fewer people would be playing J or T than they would an A or K if they are playing OC's. Anyway I raised preflop and am going to call if bet to so I lead. OK??? Do I call a raise? I don't know for sure what I would have done but I wouldn't have called 2 back for sure.

Turn: (7 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP calls, CO calls.

Well didn't run into any static on the flop and the turn card hasn't weakened my hand much. I'll fire again. I'll likely fold to a raise now.

River: (10 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, CO bets, Hero calls, MP folds.

Well theriver isn't great and does complete some straight draws, also a lot of players like to save their big hands and raise the river. So I think I'll check and call one but not 2. OK or should I fire the third barrel? Or something else?

Final Pot: 12 BB

RemyXO · #2 09-17-2007, 06:00 PM

I am going to be a huge nit here and say that I limp preflop. I ran it through the stove and 99 are about 27% favourite versus loose ranges, so value raise seems right. But I think that slight edge is negated by the fact that you are OOP. If you were on the button, sure thing, raise it up.

Since you raised, I like your postflop play and reasoning.
I'd also check/call one on the river and fold if it's two to me.

Landonfan · #3 09-17-2007, 06:06 PM

I'd say they're calling way more hands than they're betting. I think river's a bet.

I just realized we're sb after the whole table limped. I don't mind just limoing here as well.

Bona · #4 09-17-2007, 06:41 PM

You and Landon both favor limping and I guess the case for that is I can get away from a bad flop cheaper? And/or because I won't be bloating the pot and keeping people in later who are drawing to overs? And the case for raising is pretty thin since I'm not likely to fold anyone who is already in. I think I'm convinced. If I limped then I check/raise a favorable flop (no OC's, check/fold an unfavorable flop 2-3 OC's, and check/call this flop? Lead and trey if i hit the set.

tyler_cracker · #5 09-17-2007, 06:44 PM

i complete pf against this many opponents. that way, when this flop comes out, i can (hopefully) c/r the flop. raising isn't a mistake, really, but it does make the hand a little trickier to play later.

as played, you obv have to lead flop and then turn.

if you can fold to a raise, then bet the river. if not, c/c is ok.

Fluffy_Shark · #6 09-17-2007, 06:53 PM

I think on the river b/f is way better than c/c. a 7,6 or 5 might call but they will not bet.

bellatrix · #7 09-17-2007, 07:51 PM

Personally, I don't care how you do it preflop, you could raise or complete. Both are good, but your postflop action will vary a bit. As played, it was great that you chased the BB away, as BB could have probably defended with ATC.

Anyway, I like the aggression on the flop and turn.
I would value bet the river. You got second pair and a big enough pot, opponents did not raise turn...
Yep, I'd even call a raise on the river, but that one's close.
C/c river is a bit weak IMO.

Point Blank · #8 09-17-2007, 07:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I raised here because I thought I can win with this often enough that it was a value raise. Anybody think I should just complete here?[/quote

Bona ... you may infact have preflop value in raising but this value is offset by being OOP ... a good rule of thumb from Dave Fromm: play pots smaller OOP, and big when in position

[ QUOTE ]
Well we didn't hit the flop but only one OC and I expect fewer people would be playing J or T than they would an A or K if they are playing OC's...

[/ QUOTE ]

are you kidding ... the Jack is like the most playable card in a limpers profile

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway I raised preflop and am going to call if bet to so I lead. OK???

[/ QUOTE ]

don't ever think that you need to bet the flop after raising pre flop ... I doubt I would bet this flop (if I had the 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] i might change my mind) - and calling a raise is terrible IMO (why are you thinking of calling one)

[ QUOTE ]
Turn
Well didn't run into any static on the flop and the turn card hasn't weakened my hand much. I'll fire again. I'll likely fold to a raise now.

[/ QUOTE ]
nothing wrong here IMO

[ QUOTE ]
Well theriver isn't great and does complete some straight draws, also a lot of players like to save their big hands and raise the river. So I think I'll check and call one but not 2. OK or should I fire the third barrel? Or something else?

[/ QUOTE ]

well - now your here ... personally I have no idea - i hate donkeys at the river
I don't like the prospects of betting into two player after this hand.

i think taking a check and see line isn't bad:
calling if the retard on the end bets, and folding if the retard in the middle bets
but still not sure on that, so
"when in doubt - bet out! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]"

Second Toughest · #9 09-17-2007, 08:09 PM

I disagree with most of your line here.

Complete pf to keep the hand cheep to get away from. And you are out of position (as previously mentioned).

Check-raise the flop if it's one back to you. Fold it it's 2.

Bet-fold the turn.

Then again, maybe there's a reason I play full ring for nickle and dimes.

Point Blank · #10 09-17-2007, 08:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with most of your line here.

Complete pf to keep the hand cheep to get away from. And you are out of position (as previously mentioned).

Check-raise the flop if it's one back to you. Fold it it's 2.

Bet-fold the turn.

Then again, maybe there's a reason I play full ring for nickle and dimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

give some reasons for flop line please