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#1
08-25-2007, 02:53 PM
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CAZ 20-40... gave away my hand
Standard commerce game... two stations, two rocks, two idiots... I'm somewhere in between but have been playing tighter than usual and getting some monsters.
one limper to me... I call with 4 4 one to my left raises.... one caller on the button, both blinds call, UTG calls, I call. Flop 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] checked around to raiser. Bet... Button calls, blinds both call, UTG calls, I C/R. Calls all around Turn 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] C, C, I check, original raiser bets again... button raises... both blinds fold... I 3 bet. Fold- Fold. Like I said, I had been playing really tight and showed down some monsters, but I don't see how the button raiser folds here unless he had total air... should I have just smoothed call here looking for the over-call from the OG raiser and a C/R on the river? Or did I out-think myself and should have just bet out hoping to get raised and maybe 3 bet by the button? 
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#2
08-25-2007, 03:40 PM
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Re: CAZ 20-40... gave away my hand
I would just bet the turn unless you had a really good read that the PFR would bet again (you don't mention any reads of anyone). The third diamond might scare him out of betting and it would really suck to let the turn check through. Just bet and hope to 3-bet when you get raised by a flush.
After checking the turn, I think just calling the raise is probably best, although I would then donk the river instead of trying to check-raise it - your turn cold-call is going to look scary after your flop play, so I wouldn't count on button betting the river if he's got something like a small flush.
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#3
08-25-2007, 04:15 PM
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Re: CAZ 20-40... gave away my hand
i'd just play it straightforward and bet the turn.
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#4
08-25-2007, 09:28 PM
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Re: CAZ 20-40... gave away my hand
Bet the turn since this hand could easily be checked through and make people pay while they are still drawing or think they are in the lead. Since you checked the turn, you should go ahead and raise for the same value reasons mentioned above. Unfortunately, Your check-raise will look very scary. The average player will just call you down but you give the more observant player a chance to get away from a big hand. This is why betting on this scary board is better on the turn.
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#5
08-26-2007, 11:41 PM
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Re: CAZ 20-40... gave away my hand
[ QUOTE ]
i'd just play it straightforward and bet the turn. [/ QUOTE ] do you think betting out the flop is bad? i realize the position of the PFRaiser, but i just like betting out big hands; seems like there may be a lot of draws that would be calling a raise from the PFRaiser, then you can 3-bet...
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#6
08-27-2007, 12:26 AM
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Re: CAZ 20-40... gave away my hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i'd just play it straightforward and bet the turn. [/ QUOTE ] do you think betting out the flop is bad? i realize the position of the PFRaiser, but i just like betting out big hands; seems like there may be a lot of draws that would be calling a raise from the PFRaiser, then you can 3-bet... [/ QUOTE ] Yes, but what will he do with his overpair if you checkraise? And then when everyone calls again what will you do?
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#7
08-27-2007, 04:55 PM
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Re: CAZ 20-40... gave away my hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] i'd just play it straightforward and bet the turn. [/ QUOTE ] do you think betting out the flop is bad? i realize the position of the PFRaiser, but i just like betting out big hands; seems like there may be a lot of draws that would be calling a raise from the PFRaiser, then you can 3-bet... [/ QUOTE ] Yes, but what will he do with his overpair if you checkraise? And then when everyone calls again what will you do? [/ QUOTE ] i want to understand what you're saying here, but i can't. can you explain/spell it out a bit more....
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#8
08-27-2007, 07:07 PM
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Re: CAZ 20-40... gave away my hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] i'd just play it straightforward and bet the turn. [/ QUOTE ] do you think betting out the flop is bad? i realize the position of the PFRaiser, but i just like betting out big hands; seems like there may be a lot of draws that would be calling a raise from the PFRaiser, then you can 3-bet... [/ QUOTE ] Yes, but what will he do with his overpair if you checkraise? And then when everyone calls again what will you do? [/ QUOTE ] i want to understand what you're saying here, but i can't. can you explain/spell it out a bit more.... [/ QUOTE ] Put yourself in the pfr's shoes, he's going to 3 bet this flop a lot when you c/r the field, then you get to 4 bet. Thats pretty much what surfdoc is saying
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#9
08-27-2007, 11:55 PM
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Re: CAZ 20-40... gave away my hand
thanks ssmallz.
so with the CR you're thinking "CR/4-bet" to yourself, which will happen a decent amount. i know its kind of petty to get into, but it seems to me that bet/3-beting a flop leads to call downs on the big streets more that CR/4-betting does. i have no data to support this, so maybe i'm wrong, and misconceptions like this are why i lose at 20-40. but it still seems that way to me.
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