Should I hate myself for c/c'ing the whole way?

[Howard Beale]

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Well played, river has to be close to a check/fold. If you call the river bet its a crying call.

-DeathDonkey

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hardly close and hardly crying, more like "guh, whatever, i call" and sometimes you lose sometimes you win.

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Chris you are a young asian kid and play with california people. Howard is an older white guy who plays with the casino AZ folk, I'm surprised the guy didn't turn up AK and check it down on the river [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

-DeathDonkey

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Did I mention results above? Here they are since I don't think so:

Villain had 99 w/ a club. He knew very well that river bet wasn't going to work but he did it anyway. I think he was a bit off his game tonight. Earlier he'd called 2 to my 3-bet on the button from the BB w/ A-10o. Flopped an Ace and c/r'd me. I tossed my 10-10. Like I said, I think he was having an off night.

btw: I'm young at heart. I could stand to lose more than a few pounds. And if this hand went down at Commerce I think I'd have c/r the flop and kept firing. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[chesspain]

Why do guys think they have short dicks if they make the proper play of checkcalling down in a WA/WB situation? There is nothing expert or macho about checkraising and/or being forced off of the best hand.

IMO, you played the hand perfectly. FWIW, Stox says that in these situations one can either b/f or c/c the river, depending on your opponent's tendencies.

[Overseer55]

You flopped TPGK in a 6-max game. If this game is anything like online, you should be thinking that you will see a showdown on any reasonable turn+river. You are burning money if you don't see a showdown on this board.

If you know villain will NEVER bluff-raise you on the river, then a b/f is correct. However, your hand is transparent when you bet the river...did the (blank) card on the river really improve your hand??? Of course not...therefore, villain puts you on A mid-kicker and can make a profitable raise (possibly a bluff) or a fold. I prefer river b/f when it is somewhat believable that the river card might have helped you comes on the river (e.g. J, T or 9 -- of course, you b/c if you hit 2 pair). In this case, the the villain has to possibly worry about the 3-bet, which reduces the risk of him value raising AK and, in my experience, decreases the likelihood of a bluff raise.

[Milo]

I like betting out the flop here, but there are many very good players who will continue betting TT, JJ or QQ here. That said, if I'm taking your line, I like donking the river as most 77 won't bet, but may payoff a donk with that ugly third club. I also think you can safely bet-fold the river, but I probably wouldn't, b/c I play the 8/16 at CP and the river is going to be raised on a total bluff about 25% of the time anyway.

All that said, I don't hate your play at all.

[ackid]

I dont hate it. Looks like a classic wa/wb based on your read..

[ackid]

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yes you should hate yourself. PF is a fold, if you choose to play it then you need to be raising flop.

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Im not folding this PF.

[Sailboats]

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Maybe you could tell us your plan for the rest of the hand after you CR the flop. What are you hoping to acclomplish?

BTW, nice meeting you last night. Congrats on the solid score.

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Yea i try and get to fancy it seems sometimes. Well i think everyone is right and the best way to play is as a WA/WB situation, but i think it does change when you have a read on the player and C/C might not be the best line. And even if you did C/R this flop most people i see, don't fold a medium/big PP on this flop, especially with the flush draw.

Oh nice meeting you surf, I guess i did play with you one time before in a MM game. I had you pegged as a rock, but you were probably were just card dead heh. Did you change to my table? it calmed down a bit but there was one player worth staying for.

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You are right that they don't fold on the flop. They often peel to save face and then fold on the turn. I am not advocating never CRing this flop. It is just not the best play IMO in this particular spot given the villian's description. Now, if the game was shorthanded or there was a lot of posturing and hands played against this villian then I would CR the flop not infrequently since I will also be doing it sometimes without an ace especially if I feel my opponent is folding too many turns and exploitable.

As far as your other questions, I didn't swtich games. I went on a mini 1.5 rack rush and decided to head to the cage and go mess around with a friend/student of mine that was playing 4/8.

I have historically played on the tighter side of TAG so it doesn't surprise me that you thought I was a rock if I got no hands. I think at this point I am trying to play too many hands and my isolation raises and steals are probably pushing the envelope of what is profitable. I sometimes miss my old discipline but still think that when the hands aren't coming it is then the real test to keep folding and avoid playing hands that you know are unprofitable and foldable in the first orbit of your session. Sometimes when sitting with mike we make side bets on who can fold the most. This would seem like a ++EV bet for me but that dude can fold with the best of them. He actually had the nerve to tell me today that I need to tighten up preflop. Hehe, that was a good one.

I don't know what "MM" means BTW.

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Ah i see, oh MM = Must move. Their are too many acronyms on this board sometimes.