Fun with perpetuum mobile

gumpzilla · #1 07-06-2007, 01:03 PM

Was browsing Salon, and just came across the following intriguing blog entry. Apparently some Irish company took out an ad in the Economist a year ago claiming they had a device which violated conservation of energy (!). A planned technical demonstration for the 4th of July was cancelled due to "irreparable technical difficulties." The main claim is that apparently when you heat Orbo the Wonder Machine, say with lights for cameras, Orbo does not like that.

From Engadget, a brief description of how this fantastic device actually works:
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CEO Sean McCarthy tells SilconRepublic how it works. Namely, the time variance in magnetic fields allows the Orbo platform to "consistently produce power, going against the law of conservation of energy which states that energy cannot be created or destroyed." He goes on to say "It's too good to be true but it is true. It will have such an impact on everything we do. The only analogy I can give is if you had absolute proof that God wasn't real." Whoa.

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I bet it would have been fun to apply to test this thing's claims, as they state over 500 "qualified scientists" have been doing for a year.

Siegmund · #2 07-06-2007, 02:15 PM

I forget the name of the company, but I did apply to test a device of this type about two years ago, after running across it on the web.

Needless to say, as an actual thinking person with a science degree, I was not selected.

Consistently extracting work from the earth's magnetic field could be done on a small scale for a few billion years without violating conservation of energy, though - there is SOME chance this device actually is useful but doesn't work in the way the hype folk claim it does.

gumpzilla · #3 07-06-2007, 03:31 PM

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Consistently extracting work from the earth's magnetic field could be done on a small scale for a few billion years without violating conservation of energy, though - there is SOME chance this device actually is useful but doesn't work in the way the hype folk claim it does.

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Man, that seems like it's going to have to be a pretty small scale indeed. What is a typical size for random fluctuations in the Earth's field? I don't really have a good enough sense for the physics to make an estimate of something like that.

Siegmund · #4 07-06-2007, 04:16 PM

Variations of 100 or 200 nanoteslas almost every day. Up to 1000 is possible. Some of the variation is caused by magnetic storms on the sun, some of it from the rotation of the planet (the magnetic field is pushed away from the sun).

The field itself has a strength of 55000 nanoteslas where I live (goes down to 30000 near the equator.) I can't help thinking it'd be easier to find circumstances where you could take advantage of the fixed field than to harness the random fluctuations... but then, I am not a physicist.

gumpzilla · #5 07-06-2007, 04:48 PM

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I can't help thinking it'd be easier to find circumstances where you could take advantage of the fixed field than to harness the random fluctuations... but then, I am not a physicist.

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Well, one of the maxims of E&M is that a static magnetic field does no work. This is because the magnetic force is always transverse to the direction of motion. So it seems to me that this would be pretty difficult. There's certainly room for subtleties here - like maybe the geodynamo mechanism does work for you to keep the field static and that's how the conservation of energy is preserved.

Neuge · #6 07-06-2007, 05:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
CEO Sean McCarthy tells SilconRepublic how it works. Namely, the time variance in magnetic fields allows the Orbo platform to "consistently produce power, going against the law of conservation of energy which states that energy cannot be created or destroyed." He goes on to say "It's too good to be true but it is true. It will have such an impact on everything we do. The only analogy I can give is if you had absolute proof that God wasn't real." Whoa.

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Even if this does work by exploiting the Earth's magnetic field, this quote is still incredibly stupid. It wouldn't violate the 1st law and claiming it does just makes you appear incompetent.

m_the0ry · #7 07-06-2007, 06:29 PM

Conservation of energy is the foundation of quantum mechanics. And classical mechanics. I guarantee this is an investment hoax. I see no reason to be so cloak and dagger about its unveiling when, if legitimate, the inventor would instantly win a nobel prize and worldwide fame simply for a theoretical explanation.

The strength of the earths magnetic field is so imperceptibly weak that no usable amount of energy could be extracted from it, and it would certainly not be 'free energy'.

gumpzilla · #8 07-06-2007, 06:38 PM

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The strength of the earths magnetic field is so imperceptibly weak

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Maybe to the string theorists, but it's not an insignificant field at all, really. I'm not saying you could build a useful working device of this type, but there are a lot of experiments out there where the field of the earth is a big deal.

m_the0ry · #9 07-06-2007, 07:23 PM

My point is that a) its not free energy and b) the power from it (work rate) would be so ineffectual that an array of billions of these devices couldn't power a single home, which means all the claims of this being the solution to our energy crisis is bunk.

gumpzilla · #10 07-06-2007, 07:28 PM

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My point is that a) its not free energy and b) the power from it (work rate) would be so ineffectual that an array of billions of these devices couldn't power a single home

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Yes, I'm sure you've done these calculations.

It's pretty obvious this company is full of [censored]. This is why I posted it. I also don't think it's particularly plausible to try and use the earth's magnetic field for generating energy, but it's at least conceivable, and it's a cute idea if nothing else.