Stud hi - how often do you decide to call down a paired doorcard?

[Micturition Man]

I have had two multiway hands recently where 12 small bets went in on 3rd and I had buried aces, and then my opponent with the smallest doorcard pairs his doorcard on 4th and leads out for a full bet.

I am always suspicous in this spot because I feel like most competent players will be folding the majority of their small pair hands when they get raised and reraised by higher doorcards.

OTOH they should be folding most of their draws too so maybe that's not relevant.

In addition in one of these hands a third card of the relevant rank came out on 4th.

What I'm wondering is how often, in practice, you guys decide to call down a paired doorcard with just one pair?

[Andy B]

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OTOH they should be folding most of their draws too so maybe that's not relevant.

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I don't mind playing a very live three-flush for multiple bets in a multi-way pot myself. Even if they "should" fold a three-flush, does that mean that they do?

The fact that they're calling multiple bets on third tends to point away from a split pair. The fact that they hit their door card points away from a split pair, as there are now many fewer combinations of possible hole cards that give them that split pair. If another of that rank also shows on fourth, that further points away from the split pair. If they started with a three-card draw, your Aces are winning. If they started with a pocket pair, you are drawing very live. And even if they do have trips, you can always outrun them. You're probably behind their range, but with twelve small bets going in on third street, you're not far enough behind that I think you should give up yet. With a small pot, you should be more inclined to fold.

[bholdr]

I aggree with andyb: the bring-in likely isn't calling raises on third with just a small split pair. I'd likely think (depending on the player) he was drawing on a three-flush (and/or straight potential) on third- in a multiway pot his play would be justifiable... he also may have a decent buried pair, no? the double bet seems like a standard knee-jerk reaction, esp with the potential case card out. lots of players will always double bet when they pair their door card. i'd call at least.

so: I would think that i was either way ahead, or a little behind- he could have just made two pair as well...

this may be a good time to consider a raise to isolate this player, depending on your relitive position and the other players in the pot. if he DOES have two pair, you have a reasonable chance to out-draw him, and the pot is giving you good odds to try. if he has only one pair, you're way ahead. if he did hit trips, he'll probably re-raise and let you know, you can check/call from there.

one thing: in order to give quality advice, it would help to know (at least) the stakes and site you're playing and your position relitive to this player. reads on the others and the dynamics of the game (how many players? tight/loose game? any mainiacs, donks, rocks or solid players in the hand? etc...) the more info the better.

[Bicycles_Biatch]

A lot [for me] depends on whether the small pair now open was the original bring in AND they brought it in for the full amount/completed.

A lot of times [in the live games I've played around LA], a bring in with split fours and a burried ace / king will complete for the full bet [regardless of what high cards are acting behind]...

Then they get married to the hand even thought it's an additional bet or two to them on 3rd street. In this situation I will fold if they bet the full amount on fourth and/or take the lead on 5th.

However, if the small pair was the bring-in / first to act and just limped, then called 2 bets cold. I'll continue with my big burried pair working with the assumption they have two smaller pair and I'm drawing live.

Does this make sense?