Stud hi - how quickly do you give someone credit for roll-ups?

[Micturition Man]

About 3 times that I can remember I have seen the following sequence:

Baby card limps, I complete the bet with some big card up, a smaller card calls my completion, and then the original limper reraises.

All three times this has happened the original limper had roll-ups.

It feels hugely exploitable to just fold your big pairs versus a small card limp-reraise, but might this be a good idea in practice?

If you can fold outright on 3rd versus roll-ups it's a huge huge savings... and yet I never do because I'm always expecting my opponents not to be so freaking obvious and to actually have something like 987s or at least buried AA/KK.

[ill rich]

if they have rolled up trips, i'm probably going to get a hand beat. i'll try to control the loss if i feel they do have them. i'm not going to pass with a big pair against a possible rolled up trips however.

[Micturition Man]

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if they have rolled up trips, i'm probably going to get a hand beat. i'll try to control the loss if i feel they do have them. i'm not going to pass with a big pair against a possible rolled up trips however.

[/ QUOTE ]


Honest question, have you ever seen the limp-rr from a small card before?

If so, what % of the time has it been an overpair to the board or roll-ups?

I'm just trying to figure out whether competent opponents ever take this line with anything but a monster hand.

[SweetLuckyMe]

Yes, that's typical. I've made some really good early laydowns on 3rd following this very logic. Not enough, however. I do think it's quite +EV to dump big pairs to this move on 3rd. Not always an easy thing to do, however, for various reasons.

[HOWMANY]

I've had this happen a few times. One time they had 234r and they probably thought it was Razz, one time they had AA and the rest rolled up.

[Brad1970]

IMO, the hand is better disguised if you just bet accordingly & forget the FPS. All FPS does is get you tied to a hand you should have probably dumped in the first place or in a case like this, puts good players on alert so they can adjust or fold cheaply.

But, to the question at hand, my ears perk up whenever somebody does the limp/raise on 3rd or in an aggressive game limp/call/cap it. If a player can't pick up on that & get away from marginal hands, then they don't have any business playing stud.

[Micturition Man]

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If a player can't pick up on that & get away from marginal hands, then they don't have any business playing stud.

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is I like to approach poker strategy from a game theory angle, and if you are folding your big pairs to a limp-reraise from a low card, you are HUGELY exploitable by a weirdly played flush draw.

However that being said I intend to start just mucking them, based on the advice in this thread.

It seems like nobody ever has anything but roll-ups or a buried overpair here, and I am sick of donating to people who play their hands so obviously.

Incidentally I agree with your comments regarding deception. You should just try to play them like a flush draw, or if you are in a spot where you always open-raise, just open-raise and hope someone plays back.

[Andy B]

I will sometimes l/rr with a big three-flush, and I've seen others do it, both live and online. It does put me on alert. Putting me on alert and betting me off of my hand are different things, though.

[PieInTheSky]

In my limited experience (20/40 at commerce) it has been a burried pair (aa or kk usually) and not rolled up. but the 20 game at the commerce is a tight passive game so some people do this in an attempt to get the most out of their big pair. Might not be typical of your game conditions.

b