Two Plus Two Newer Archives This seems rediculus to me
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#1
11-28-2006, 04:52 AM
 RonWR Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Israel Posts: 143
This seems rediculus to me

So, First of , I'm a causual visitor on this site, I play 10-20 6 handed on stars and am a winning player.

Now to the topic

this is from cardplayer : http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_quiz/166
A \$10-\$20 game. You are in the big blind holding the A-7. An early player, a middle player, and the small blind limp. There is \$40 in the pot and four players. The flop comes: 7-5-4, giving you top pair, top kicker. The small blind checks. You bet. The middle limper and the small blind call. There is \$70 in the pot and three players. The turn is the 4, pairing the bottom flop-card. The small blind checks. You bet. The middle limper raises. The small blind folds. What do you do?Fold. Unless you are up against a player who can read your mind or who knows exactly how you think, folding is best in a typical \$10-\$20 game against decent opponents. There is \$130 in the pot and it costs you \$20 to call. These are pot odds of around 6-to-1. What are your outs, assuming your opponent has a better hand? A seven for sure, but that is only two outs, a 23-to-1 shot. Is an ace an out? Only if he doesn't have trip fours or a straight. In the most optimistic case (other than a bluff), you have five outs with any ace or seven, which is an 8-to-1 shot, so the pot odds are still not there even in this rosy scenario. Bottom line is that there will be a high percentage of cases where you are playing two outs, making your call totally wrong. There will be a small percentage of cases where your call is only slightly wrong, because you happen to have five outs instead of two. To play on here is to basically put your opponent on a bluff or semi-bluff. Furthermore, at the time the middle limper raised, there are two players in the hand, you and the small blind. If he is bluffing or semi-bluffing, he is doing it in a multi-handed pot, which makes those types of plays more unlikely. The other problem with playing on, based on the shaky assumption that he is bluffing, is that you will end up calling a river bet as well, so it will cost \$40 to see the hand through (not just \$20).

I couldnt disagree more, obviouslly we are missing information about the players in the hand but if considering we arnt dealing with an extraordienry type of player here the question has to be what could he be holding?

I think possible hand are 77 66 55 44 maybe a medium over pair or two overcards on the flop with spades maybe or A4 A5 A6 and A7 , and when taking these hands into regard I cant see how folding here is the right thing to do, if someone can maybe explain , because this seems like a terrible fold here.
#2
11-28-2006, 05:35 AM
 bernie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Muckleshoot! Usually rebuying. Posts: 15,163
Re: This seems rediculus to me

1st, this isn't a 6 handed game.

2nd, the type of game/opponent this is written for, the players who raise here usually have you beat. Badly. You're getting about 6-1 on an 8-1 shot plus you need an overlay should you hit your hand and it not be good. So you need a bit more than 8-1. So you don't have the odds to call.

Btw...in the time when that hand was written, 10-20 wasn't what it is now and waiting for the turn to raise was usually a big hand, not a semi bluffed draw. You still don't see the bluffed draw on the turn that much that it's considered 'typical'.

Against a trickier player, then it can lean more towards a call.

[ QUOTE ]
I think possible hand are 77 66 55 44 maybe a medium over pair or two overcards on the flop with spades maybe or A4 A5 A6 and A7

[/ QUOTE ]

Against these hands, you're only ahead of 66, overcards, or A5 or A6. A typical player won't wait to the turn to raise with any of those. Some of those they'd raise the flop, not the turn.

Player dependent.

b

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