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  #11  
Old 12-02-2007, 12:50 AM
Raxxmataxx Raxxmataxx is offline
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Default Re: Stud8 - (AA)K facing reraise from Q door

[ QUOTE ]
I don't care if it defines my hand. I have aces and I am representing kings.

[/ QUOTE ]Yeah, that's the problem. KK and AA is functionally equivalent here and it's going to make it much harder for you to make the other high hand a jamming partner on 4th and 5th.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't want people seeing 4th cheaply with low pairs or low draws.

[/ QUOTE ]You don't actually have that much equity in a 4-way pot. So no, at this point you're not charging them much at all.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I could make the same play here with a draw and the best door card.

[/ QUOTE ]That does make it better, but in that case you're putting in a lot of money with really crappy equity.

It just seems much simpler to just call here and put in the raise on 4th when you can actually expect someone to fold.

Looking at 4th further, raising does seem mandatory. But it's still not doing a thing against low draws.
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  #12  
Old 12-02-2007, 01:12 AM
betgo betgo is offline
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Default Re: Stud8 - (AA)K facing reraise from Q door

Aces and kings are similar, but aces are better, particularly since they are live and concealed here.

I have no idea what hands the low cards have, but I think you should charge them the max if they want to continue. I don't agree that you don't have a lot of equity. Also, you may even get someone to fold.

If you jam with a K and a draw, it is not a terrible play, as you do have decent equity and may pick up the pot if you make an open pair or the Q doesn't improve. Also, my point is that 3-betting 3rd does not completely define your hand as kings, aces, or rolled up, as you could make the play with a draw.

If I am sitting there with small pair good kicker or 3-flush with atleast one low card, I am not going to be happy calling a lot of bets on early streets. Also, I would be concerned with the Q that I was way behind. With a big pair, you want to pressure your opponents and make it hard for them to draw out on you.
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  #13  
Old 12-02-2007, 01:25 AM
Raxxmataxx Raxxmataxx is offline
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Default Re: Stud8 - (AA)K facing reraise from Q door

[ QUOTE ]
Aces and kings are similar, but aces are better, particularly since they are live and concealed here.

[/ QUOTE ]I didn't mean equitywise, just that knowing that you have kings isn't very different from knowing that you have aces.

[ QUOTE ]
I have no idea what hands the low cards have, but I think you should charge them the max if they want to continue. I don't agree that you don't have a lot of equity. Also, you may even get someone to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]Well, the low hands have already called a raise + reraise from you and Q. So them folding for one extra bet should be in the neighbourhood of "never". Same goes for Q-guy.

I also think this makes it much less likely that they have the type of hands you have significant equity against, ie pairs, rather than low hands which you don't benefit all that much from. It also makes your lower pairs or draws much worse off.

So I'm weighing the low boards *much* more towards 3-lows than when the pot isn't raised. Which is why I don't think you have all that much equity in this spot.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I would be concerned with the Q that I was way behind. With a big pair,

[/ QUOTE ]Well yes, that's kind of why I don't like it. I want to be able to use the Q as a lever on later streets if the lows doesn't work out. Or being able to jam him if the lows actually do hit.

Also, you're going to be mostly OOP.

Taking the big pairs out of your call distribution would mess with you a lot against perceptive opponents, which is mostly how I think about the game. That's going to matter much less here though.

My main concern is basically that capping 3d is going to make jamming much less likely on 4th and 5th. And those are streets you very much want jammed when going high.

For instance, take the case where you cap 3d and both lows blanks on 4th. Now Q-guy is much less likely to raise you than if you donk after just calling on 3d.
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