Wilson's O8 software, and a hand question...

[Micturition Man]

I have had a big O8 downswing lately, and have bad results for O8 overall, so I have been trying to figure out what's wrong with my game (if it's not just variance).

Anyway I dug out an old copy of Wilson's Turbo O8 product to see how my preflop play compares to what it advises.

One thing that really struck me is that according to a sim I did, it is -EV (by 6% of a big bet), to open-raise AJ94 rainbow 2-off the button.

Do any of you, who actually play short handed games against compentent (therefore fairly tight) opponents agree with this?

I understand it is not a good hand, it just feels *good enough*, to me, to open-raise here. (In 6-max I play virtually any A + wheelcard for an open-raise if nobody has acted before me.)

So do you guys agree with Wilson's?

And please keep in mind I am talking about fairly tough short-handed games, not loose cold-call fests.

[J_V]

I have a friend who could help a lot more than I can. He has a huge database and some really interesting ideas on shorthanded omaha 8, with a big database to back up some pretty interesting conclusions, I'll send this along his way.

I remember there being a big bias with that turbo program preflop, either overvalue or undervaluing hands, I'll ask him what it was, because I know he used it.

Unfortunately, I'm only an expert in omaha in the heads up form. I never really got around to shorthanded or six max o8, other than just playing here and there in the good UB games. For players who play pretty well, the variance to ev ratio seemed to be really high to me.

It seems impossible to me that AJ94 is -6% ev there, but I'll get back to you.

You have any stats on "cmynuts" in the omaha games, I played with him when I was still under 21 back in Chicago, and I think he is an serious omaha expert. He was "Superfish", on UB, I think. If you have any stats on him, you might be able to see what he's raising back there.

How have those games been? Have you played any of the high limit horse?

[wackjob]

I play all 6-max and shorter games online. AJ94 is definately a "stealing" hand. Thus, when stealing, you are playing your opponents and not your hand. There are a group of LAG/TAG 40/20 types on FTP who I will raise this hand against all day long, because they will constantly defend garbage like 2579. I'm fairly certain this hand is +ev versus many opponents and -ev versus some others. Get good reads and notes on your opponents, and that will let you know which is the case.

[SparkMan]

pokenum -mc 500000 -o8 as 9d 4c jh - 2s 5d 7h 9h
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As 4c 9d Jh 182273 271663 226147 2190 131777 33424 394 0.552
2s 5d 9h 7h 130188 226147 271663 2190 154689 94507 394 0.448
I prefer to steal against players that don't properly defend this spot.

[Micturition Man]

It seems impossible to me that AJ94 is -6% ev there, but I'll get back to you.

You have any stats on "cmynuts" in the omaha games, I played with him when I was still under 21 back in Chicago, and I think he is an serious omaha expert. He was "Superfish", on UB, I think. If you have any stats on him, you might be able to see what he's raising back there.

How have those games been? Have you played any of the high limit horse?

I have played with Chris quite a bit. I always thought he was a bit on the loose side, but he seems to have great results in all omaha games, so maybe not.

The HORSE games have been really good... lots of people are bad at the stud games and get fairly out of line at 9-handed O8.

The O8 6-max games I'm not sure of... I thought they seemed ok but I am losing in them.

[J_V]

Wow, that was supposed to be a PM. I wonder where my brain was this morning.