How to play FR against Stars nits?

[Slava_sky]

I am a FR player. I liker FR because you can stick to one strategy and play ABC poker without caring much about your opponents.

But it seems not so easy to beat Stars that way. 2p2ers on NL5 [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] seem not to be likely pay off your monsters, because fold a lot, but are always ready to catch you on their montsters.

Who had positive experience on playing FR Stars, how to beat it there? Does TAG strategy need corrections there?

[Bona]

Sounds like the correction needed is to develop and use reads on your opponents. Tight aggressive is good but getting inside your opponents head is better. Takes time, patience and practice. Pays big dividends.

[7n7]

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I liker FR because you can stick to one strategy and play ABC poker without caring much about your opponents.

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This isn't really a sound statement. If you can play ABC poker and win without worrying too much about your opponents' tendencies, it's not b/c it's full ring. It's b/c of your opponents.

ABC poker won't win at the upper limits at full ring, so this statement definitely loses its validity as you progress to bigger games.

As for why your opponents seem to fold a lot, yet trap you with their monsters? Ironically enough, the very strategy you think wins is actually what's hurting you.

It looks to me like they're playing off your ABC tendencies. If you always play the same regardless, it's not that difficult a strategy to exploit.

My suggestion: mix it up a bit. Instead of ABC, play ABCDE and some F. Limp with AA/KK once in a while, play a draw a bit more aggressively at times, smooth-call your strong hands occasionally, throw in a check-raise from time to time, etc., etc.

If your opponents are 2p2'ers, then you've got to assume they know a little bit about ABC poker themselves as well as the counter-strategies.

[gedanken]

By NL5 you mean .05 big blind, or $5 big blind?

If you think players are tight at .05 big blinds, you've got another thing coming. I also don't think many 2+2ers play that game; it's too small $ and they prefer 6-max.

I've played 9000+ hands at 10nl (ie, .10 BB) FR, and am beating it. Took a while(practice, study, think). Make sure you're adapting to the various styles you see, there's just no excuse not to. Table and seat selection are very important.

[Slava_sky]

About 2+2ers it was a joke.

But even on NL5(0.01-0.02) players are REALLY tight. Compared to other rooms of course. Very rarely I get something with AA, because the whole table either folds preflop after raise 0.08, or at least calls flop c-bet, and definetely fold after the pot bet on the turn if they don't beat me.

[7n7]

[ QUOTE ]
About 2+2ers it was a joke.

But even on NL5(0.01-0.02) players are REALLY tight. Compared to other rooms of course. Very rarely I get something with AA, because the whole table either folds preflop after raise 0.08, or at least calls flop c-bet, and definetely fold after the pot bet on the turn if they don't beat me.

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So why raise every time with it pre-flop? Why always c-bet it? Why always pot bet it on the turn?

If your opponents are playing too tight and folding too often, take some chances. Limp with your big pairs, check them on the flop with the right boards, mix up your pre-flop raises and turn bets, etc.

Basically if you want action and aren't getting it, you make the adjustment. You can't count on your opponents to. If you don't want action, do the opposite.

I know it's frustrating, but this is Poker 101. Observe your opponents and then adjust to how they're playing. They too tight? Loosen up. They too loose? Tighten up. And so on. They fold too much to your raises? Let 'em in the pot (if that's what you want). If your raises aren't getting any respect, charge them for the privilege of drawing out on you.

In a nutshell, a great player gets their opponents to play the way they want them to.

[Slava_sky]

To let them into pot means play incorrectly, because they like to go on the flop 4-handed, where AA are in danger. But if I raise - those 4 happily fold. For example, it normal on Stars to make c-bets when you have 4 opponents on the flop - very likely to fold.

Safe flops? You know, they happen too rare. Rainbow without straight draws? Come on.

That's why I asked about Stars specific.

[7n7]

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To let them into pot means play incorrectly

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Firstly, this statement depends on your skill level. If you can't get away from AA post-flop, then by all means raise it every time and thin the field.

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But if I raise - those 4 happily fold. For example, it normal on Stars to make c-bets when you have 4 opponents on the flop - very likely to fold

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Secondly, so what do you want them to do? If you complain about them folding to your p/f raises or c-bets too much, well then, how do you best counter that? Answer: you don't always do either.

Thirdly, understand my responses. Do you honestly think that I don't understand that limping AA p/f can be dangerous? I'm basically telling you to mix up your play. Most of the time, raise your pairs pre-flop, a lot of the time c-bet, just don't do it all the time.

You seem to have an all or nothing type mentality. Either always raise AA or always limp it. Always c-bet or always don't. When you mix up your play, you take the word 'always' out of your vocabulary. Never in my response do I say, "start limping all your big pocket pairs pre-flop."

There's a lot of smart people that post on this board. I'm not saying I'm one of them, but I can beat Stars micro-limits. And yes, I do play Stars.

Pick up the book No Limit Hold Em: Theory and Practice by Sklansky. Read it several times. You won't be sorry.

[bigbrett]

I've been building a bankroll on stars and have been playing micro NL. My biggest suggestion is to practice better game selection. If you're not getting action, move to a different table. I've had no trouble finding at least one table that will give me action.

Also, maybe it's time to loosen up a bit in late position with many limpers and try to hit some disguised huge hands. That's been paying off quite a bit for me, also.

[Slava_sky]

Mixing up play makes sense on higher levels. And it really doesn't make sense in FR, because you get rare playable hands, and just nobody will notice. If I have one AA on the session, what's the sense of mixing up?

And they fold on raises not because they observed me, but because they are tight and do not want to call pf raises with crap.