in over my head

piggity · #1 11-26-2007, 04:03 PM

So I find myself sitting in a 1/2 game again, feeling somewhat over-matched aside from two obvious weak spots. The villain here is a TAG, possibly a pro, and probably views me as weak. Earlier he opened on the button, I defended my BB with KTo, c/c a low paired flop, c/r T turn, bet out Q river and won the pot (he called river but did not show his hand -- but he did show his neighbor and the ensuing conversation suggested he had flopped a low pair with a K kicker).

So obviously he's raising with a wide range OTB -- but just how wide can I assume that range to be?

Anyhow we're 7 handed at the moment and he open raises on the button again, SB folds. I have A7o in the BB. Now is this a mandatory 3-bet?

I just call, and the flop is KQxr. Can I just c/f here or am I just giving away money by playing this way?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Bill King · #2 11-26-2007, 04:26 PM

standard c/f here

bicyclekick · #3 11-26-2007, 05:58 PM

For a while I was check calling that flop a lot more and while I think it's fine, I think it's better to give up right away on that board vs a competent player.

mtgordon · #4 11-26-2007, 06:30 PM

Just trying to understand things better:

Is the reason for c/f the flop because he most likely has you dominated w/Ax (x>7) or he hit the flop and you are drawing to 3 outs?

Also I'm curious about 3betting from the bb. How low will you guys go w/the 3bet?

HOWMANY · #5 11-26-2007, 06:39 PM

well if the plan is to c/c c/c c/c then basically 1 sb is going in when you are ahead and 2.5bb are going in when you are behind. that seems like a pretty good reason to c/f already. if thats not the plan then are we c/c flop c/f turn? c/c c/c c/f? the reason you c/f is that even though it seems wimpy is that all the other options are much much worse.

mtgordon · #6 11-26-2007, 07:39 PM

I don't think you statements go well together. I'm certainly not saying that c/f is not the correct play here, but it seems like your first statement about 1sb when ahead, 2.5bb when behind implies that it will get checked down on the turn/river if you're not ahead. Otherwise you'll be gaining more than 1sb if you call down and are ahead.

However, if this is true (that they will not continue to bet if behind, then it makes for an easy c/c flop, c/f turn because you'll know almost exactly where you are. Again, I'm not arguing against c/f but rather saying that your first statement doesn't seem correct.

mike l. · #7 11-27-2007, 08:13 PM

"the reason you c/f is that even though it seems wimpy is that all the other options are much much worse."

well said.

as for 3 betting pf it would be a part of any balanced strategy to sometimes do that. maybe 30-50% of the time against an avid button raiser.

Turning Stone Pro · #8 11-27-2007, 06:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Just trying to understand things better:

Is the reason for c/f the flop because he most likely has you dominated w/Ax (x>7) or he hit the flop and you are drawing to 3 outs?

Also I'm curious about 3betting from the bb. How low will you guys go w/the 3bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

For about 1 year I employed the Guifre-HiatusOver-Nomar strategy of 3 betting from the SB against the button with anything A6o or better.

After losing enough to fund a couple days of the, ahem, "war" in Iraq, I went back to my old guideline of A9o or better.

TSP

HiatusOver · #9 11-27-2007, 07:53 PM

For about 1 year I employed the Guifre-HiatusOver-Nomar strategy of 3 betting from the SB against the button with anything A6o or better.

After losing enough to fund a couple days of the, ahem, "war" in Iraq, I went back to my old guideline of A9o or better.

TSP

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think any of us 3 had this rule or even preferred often 3-betting Ax

PokerBob · #10 11-26-2007, 07:50 PM

fold.