AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement

[El Diablo]

ad,

Tom could be officially out of operational control and still own a majority equity position allowing him to control everything and nobody here would have any way to know.

[wisehandpoker]

- I need to get in touch with Marco Johnson on behalf of espn.com. Nat and adanthar can verify I'm on the level. If anyone has contact info (AIM, MSN, phone#) for either he or jared Hamby, please PM it to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've gotten in touch with Marco. Thanks very much to those who helped.

[Cry Me A River]

[ QUOTE ]
Kind of a smokescreen though. Whether or not they contacted Gaming Associates or the KGC 'immediately' is not the point.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, it is the point.

Absolute Poker is still lying.

This is not spin. This is not fudging the truth. This is an outright lie.

It's not like Absolute was a little slow getting around to calling Gaming Associates and/or KGC and now they're just trying to paint themselves in a slightly better light.

No, initially Absolute conducted their own investigation (or claimed they did) and then issue a release stating there was no cheating.

"thorough investigation" "no evidence no evidence that any of Absolute Poker’s redundant and varying levels of game client security were compromised"


Now Absolute is claiming none of that happened. Instead they say they "immediately contacted Gaming Associates".

Absolute Poker is still lying.

If we can't even trust Absolute not to try and revise history that's only 2 weeks old, how can we trust them with anything?


The truth is that either Absolute initially launched an incompetent investigation and/or those involved in the cheating tried to cover it up with a bogus investigation. Gaming Associates and KGC were only contacted AFTER more evidence (tournament hand history) came to light and Absolute could no longer continue to deny, deny, deny.

Absolute Poker is still covering up.

Absolute Poker is still lying.

[N 82 50 24]

Okay, here are the details on the Mark Seif/stuckinpgh HH release. It's a series of emails, read from top to bottom.

----------------------------

Hi Nat,

It looks like we will have to try to get the HHs from Mike or someone else that was there or was data mining. I have cut and pasted a conversation I had a few minutes ago with the head of AP's technology and software in regards to the hand history from the now infamous session. I took out two names of people at AP so as not to drag them into this unnecessarily. Please let me know what I can do to help remedy this situation. Is it possible and are you willing to ask for anyone who may have the HH to come forward and produce them? That seems like the only way to get them and it would alleviate the concern that AP or myself would alter them. Please advise.
m

[nat edit: snip some small talk]
Mark Seif says (10:47 PM):
well as you probably know the ap scandal is much bigger and worse than any one would have guessed
AP Support Guy says (10:47 PM):
[censored]. . . tell me about it
AP Support Guy says (10:47 PM):
so [censored] stupid
Mark Seif says (10:47 PM):
its so unbelievable the stuff i am hearing and readinhg
Mark Seif says (10:47 PM):
so [censored] stupid!
Mark Seif says (10:47 PM):
i totally agree
Mark Seif says (10:47 PM):
disgussting actually
AP Support Guy says (10:47 PM):
everything we've worked for
AP Support Guy says (10:47 PM):
disgusting is the right word
AP Support Guy says (10:48 PM):
everything being demolished by a couple of stuipid and ignorant maniacs
Mark Seif says (10:48 PM):
well my name and reputation has been dragged through the mud pretty badly
Mark Seif says (10:48 PM):
people think i was involved
AP Support Guy says (10:48 PM):
well
AP Support Guy says (10:49 PM):
i've been reading the stuff on forums
AP Support Guy says (10:49 PM):
and i read a thing or two about the suspision of you being involved
AP Support Guy says (10:49 PM):
but most people somehow think that's not the case
Mark Seif says (10:49 PM):
i need your help in clearing my name and making sure people know the truth
Mark Seif says (10:50 PM):
i played in a heads up session on feb15 2006
Mark Seif says (10:50 PM):
it was 75/150 limit holdem
Mark Seif says (10:50 PM):
against stuckinpgh
AP Support Guy says (10:51 PM):
that's last year?
Mark Seif says (10:51 PM):
people are saying i could see his hole cards because i beat him pretty badly after i took a short break , probablt to smoke
Mark Seif says (10:51 PM):
yes lasy year
Mark Seif says (10:51 PM):
i have agreed to expose my hole cards
AP Support Guy says (10:51 PM):
ok well that was not possible in Feb last year for sure
Mark Seif says (10:52 PM):
so that people can see my hands and see that i did nothing wrong
Mark Seif says (10:52 PM):
what do you mean its not possible?
Mark Seif says (10:52 PM):
oh i know that
AP Support Guy says (10:52 PM):
viewing other player's whole cards real time
Mark Seif says (10:52 PM):
or at least i hope so
Mark Seif says (10:53 PM):
i need to get the hand histories from that session
AP Support Guy says (10:53 PM):
have you spoken to XXXX or XXXX?
Mark Seif says (10:53 PM):
my opponent and I have agreed to show the public our hands so that they can see there was no cheating when i won
AP Support Guy says (10:54 PM):
hmmm
Mark Seif says (10:54 PM):
i have spoken to them but i dont need them for my hand histories do I?
AP Support Guy says (10:55 PM):
well, the issue is a quite sensitive one these days as you understand
AP Support Guy says (10:55 PM):
although i don't see a problem
AP Support Guy says (10:55 PM):
for the record, i need you to make sure whether there won't be any issues
Mark Seif says (10:55 PM):
well of course xxxxxxx but i dont know why anyone would have a problem with me showing the public my hole cards\
AP Support Guy says (10:56 PM):
true
Mark Seif says (10:56 PM):
this is my reputation at stake
AP Support Guy says (10:56 PM):
but there is a problem. . . . . .
Mark Seif says (10:56 PM):
and quite frankly i dont need anyone's permission for that\
AP Support Guy says (10:56 PM):
We may be holding hand histories for up to 6 months. . . wait until i verify it.
Mark Seif says (10:56 PM):
ok
Mark Seif says (10:57 PM):
that will be terrible for me
AP Support Guy says (10:57 PM):
this may be too old
Mark Seif says (10:57 PM):
no one will believe me that i can
Mark Seif says (10:57 PM):
't get my HH from ap
Mark Seif says (10:57 PM):
they already think i will alter the hand histories or that i am stalling or that i am bluffing and will not show them
Mark Seif says (10:58 PM):
i need those hand histories immediately
AP Support Guy says (10:59 PM):
hand history datas for 1 months is over 30 Giga bytes these days
AP Support Guy says (10:59 PM):
due to the difficulty with storing all those data, we do not keep anything more than 2 months
AP Support Guy says (11:00 PM):
let me see what i can do
Mark Seif says (11:00 PM):
wow thats big but please help it is very important that we get these hand histories
Mark Seif says (11:00 PM):
to re-establish the public's trust
AP Support Guy says (11:00 PM):
i can see why but this is a tough one
AP Support Guy says (11:00 PM):
hold on
Mark Seif says (11:00 PM):
and clear my name
AP Support Guy says (11:01 PM):
any other recent ones ??
AP Support Guy says (11:01 PM):
that you can use?
Mark Seif says (11:01 PM):
no not really people only care about that session
AP Support Guy says (11:02 PM):
[censored] that's so old though
AP Support Guy says (11:02 PM):
people remember that session only?
Mark Seif says (11:03 PM):
yes because the guy i played against and his stupid lying friend made posts on a forum that i cheated them
Mark Seif says (11:04 PM):
they made those posts that night but no one cared including myself because it was just stupid, now that this situation has come up people are assuming it was true
Mark Seif says (11:05 PM):
and i am getting a lot of heat,, people think i was involved in this mess and obviously that hurts my reputation and its hard to listen to/read
AP Support Guy says (11:06 PM):
this sucks
Mark Seif says (11:06 PM):
agreed
Mark Seif says (11:06 PM):
totally
AP Support Guy says (11:08 PM):
you know how we moved from sixnations to Kanawake
AP Support Guy says (11:08 PM):
and we made a major alternation to the database architecture
Mark Seif says (11:08 PM):
yes
Mark Seif says (11:08 PM):
i heard
AP Support Guy says (11:08 PM):
i'm trying to see we can reconstruct the archive from last year
AP Support Guy says (11:08 PM):
there is a strong change it may be totally gone
Mark Seif says (11:09 PM):
ty very much i wouldn't ask if it wasn't so important
AP Support Guy says (11:09 PM):
i know how important it is
Mark Seif says (11:09 PM):
there are all sorts of lies and exaggeration out there and i dont really know how to set the record straight except to provide access to my hole cards
AP Support Guy says (11:09 PM):
but think of a way to prove it without that data from feb 2006
AP Support Guy says (11:10 PM):
anything new?
AP Support Guy says (11:10 PM):
i mean
AP Support Guy says (11:10 PM):
hear me out mark
Mark Seif says (11:10 PM):
there is no other way, apparently the guy i played against didnt keep the HH
AP Support Guy says (11:10 PM):
if people think that you had access to other player's whole cards
AP Support Guy says (11:10 PM):
they would believe you had no other reason to stop using it right?
AP Support Guy says (11:10 PM):
which means you would continue to use them
AP Support Guy says (11:10 PM):
why not reveal something recent?
Mark Seif says (11:11 PM):
no that would be too logical, the hysteria surrounding this mess seems to have altered many people
Mark Seif says (11:11 PM):
's ability to think rationally
Mark Seif says (11:11 PM):
they want THAT sessiom
AP Support Guy says (11:11 PM):
i understand
AP Support Guy says (11:11 PM):
but if that's too old
AP Support Guy says (11:12 PM):
and we can't get it back
AP Support Guy says (11:12 PM):
we have to think of an alternative way
AP Support Guy says (11:12 PM):
why not reveal every hand history of you for the past few months?
AP Support Guy says (11:12 PM):
wouldn't that clear your name? if we can't get the hand history from feb 2006?
Mark Seif says (11:12 PM):
well i would rather not because that puts me at a huge disadvantage as a player
Mark Seif says (11:13 PM):
and again people want that particular session
Mark Seif says (11:13 PM):
they wont believe that i can't get it and they will think we are incompetent
AP Support Guy says (11:13 PM):
who are these people? what forum?
Mark Seif says (11:14 PM):
2+2 mostly, but also pocket fives and some other smaller ones
Mark Seif says (11:14 PM):
its like a witch hunt man
AP Support Guy says (11:14 PM):
i mean which one mentions about that hand from feb 2006?
Mark Seif says (11:14 PM):
they want blood and i understand their anger but i need to prove that i was not involved
AP Support Guy says (11:15 PM):
be right back
Mark Seif says (11:15 PM):
they are kind of running the show now and asking the questions, i can't just tell them oh the hand histories were not saved properly
Mark Seif says (11:16 PM):
they will assume i am lying or covering up
Mark Seif says (11:16 PM):
ok i wait
AP Support Guy says (11:18 PM):
ok mark i just got the confirmation that we do not have the hand history from feb 2006
AP Support Guy says (11:18 PM):
it's not about being properly saved
AP Support Guy says (11:19 PM):
hey Craig
Mark Seif says (11:19 PM):
??
AP Support Guy says (11:19 PM):
i'm trying to invite Craig
Mark Seif says (11:19 PM):
who is craig?
AP Support Guy says (11:20 PM):
he's in charge of our servers
AP Support Guy says (11:21 PM):
he's not answering
AP Support Guy says (11:21 PM):
anyhow
AP Support Guy says (11:21 PM):
we're gonna have to figure out another way of proving your innocence in this mass
Mark Seif says (11:21 PM):
wow ok
Mark Seif says (11:22 PM):
people are not going to believe me
AP Support Guy says (11:23 PM):
i know it can put you at a disadvantage but reconsider the option of opening up your hand histories from recent days
Mark Seif says (11:23 PM):
ok ty
AP Support Guy says (11:23 PM):
and explain that once you had that ability to see other players' whole cards, you would continue to use them up until recently
AP Support Guy says (11:24 PM):
and the recent hand histories would reveal that you didn't have that capability
Mark Seif says (11:24 PM):
they say i did just one time
AP Support Guy says (11:24 PM):
that's ridiculous
AP Support Guy says (11:24 PM):
but then
Mark Seif says (11:24 PM):
like i was mad or something and decided to pull out the secret weapon one time, never before and never aafter
AP Support Guy says (11:24 PM):
this situation is ridiculous so. . .
Mark Seif says (11:24 PM):
doesnt make sense but thats what they are saying
AP Support Guy says (11:25 PM):
yea sorry i can't help you with this one Mark
AP Support Guy says (11:25 PM):
it sucks
Mark Seif says (11:25 PM):
ok C ty for lookinng into it

----------

My response:

Hey Mark,

I know this is a tough spot for you. I actually advise that I would post a short message on 2p2 and P5s indicating what I have read and that the HHs are not available for a technical reason (and not just these, but all old hand histories). I will, of course, also advise AP to start saving HHs considering that 500 GB hard drives are only $100 these days. Since he says a month of hand histories is 30 GB, it seems absolutely retarded to be deleting hand histories after a few months. I can't believe how dumb they are for doing that and it makes me question a lot of things.

Either way, let me know if you want to make that post. I don't think we're going to find the HHs anywhere, but I could ask for that as a last-ditch effort.

Thanks,

Nat

----------

His response back:

Hey Nat,

Wow! Okay so, if a 500 GB hard drive costs about $100, and, my rudimentary math isn't mistaken, that means that for $100 they would be able to keep records of more than 16 months of HHs. Right? It that's the case, it is indeed retarded beyond all imagination. Please ask for the HHs and if you are so inclined, feel free to publish this convo or your summary. Please delete xxxxxxx's name though so that he is not dragged into this mess as well. I am in awe of all this. I just don't get it and don't know what to do. Any help you can provide in clearing my name would be much appreciated. While, I am confident the truth about me will eventually come out, I am fearful that it will take a long time and that great harm will be done in the meanwhile. I know there will probably be some residual doubt for some for a long time, if not forever, about my complicity in this ordeal, but I would like to whatever I can to minimize the damage. If for nothing else, to provide people who lashed out at me in anger in the heat of the moment, an opportunity to revisit and rethink that issue. That way, I can proceed with a clear conscience with any legal remedies that may be available to me.

Please understand, I am hardly a litigious person, but some of the stuff that has been done to my character is textbook defamation and must be addressed. Again, thanks for your help.
m

----------

And that's it... Interpret as you wish.

[burningyen]

[ QUOTE ]
ad,

Tom could be officially out of operational control and still own a majority equity position allowing him to control everything and nobody here would have any way to know.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's why I keep pounding on this issue. If anyone cares whether or not their future raked business is ultimately lining the pockets of a confirmed cheat and/or the person responsible for the subsequent cover-up, then the lack of transparency in Absolute's (and UltimateBet's) ownership should be a cause for concern.

[pokerstudAA]

[ QUOTE ]
AP Support Guy says (10:59 PM):
hand history datas for 1 months is over 30 Giga bytes these days
AP Support Guy says (10:59 PM):
due to the difficulty with storing all those data, we do not keep anything more than 2 months

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? WTF? How are they going to conduct a complete investigation of everything that went on with only 2 months of information. No wonder they wanted to limit the scope to 3 weeks. What kind of large corporation wouldn't keep this kind of important info?

[Dudd]

[ QUOTE ]
AP Support Guy says (11:21 PM):
we're gonna have to figure out another way of proving your innocence in this mass
Mark Seif says (11:21 PM):
wow ok
Mark Seif says (11:22 PM):
people are not going to believe me
AP Support Guy says (11:23 PM):
i know it can put you at a disadvantage but reconsider the option of opening up your hand histories from recent days
Mark Seif says (11:23 PM):
ok ty
AP Support Guy says (11:23 PM):
and explain that once you had that ability to see other players' whole cards, you would continue to use them up until recently
AP Support Guy says (11:24 PM):
and the recent hand histories would reveal that you didn't have that capability
Mark Seif says (11:24 PM):
they say i did just one time
AP Support Guy says (11:24 PM):
that's ridiculous
AP Support Guy says (11:24 PM):
but then
Mark Seif says (11:24 PM):
like i was mad or something and decided to pull out the secret weapon one time, never before and never aafter
AP Support Guy says (11:24 PM):
this situation is ridiculous so. . .
Mark Seif says (11:24 PM):
doesnt make sense but thats what they are saying
AP Support Guy says (11:25 PM):
yea sorry i can't help you with this one Mark
AP Support Guy says (11:25 PM):
it sucks
Mark Seif says (11:25 PM):
ok C ty for lookinng into it


[/ QUOTE ]

It's a good thing he has the crack AP support team coming up with these innovative ways to clear his name, otherwise he'd be screwed.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

AP Support Guy says (10:59 PM):
hand history datas for 1 months is over 30 Giga bytes these days
AP Support Guy says (10:59 PM):
due to the difficulty with storing all those data, we do not keep anything more than 2 months


[/ QUOTE ]



Really? WTF? How are they going to conduct a complete investigation of everything that went on with only 2 months of information. No wonder they wanted to limit the scope to 3 weeks. What kind of large corporation wouldn't keep this kind of important info?

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, it amazes me that they still think we're this dumb. 30 gigabytes a month, oh no, how could a company ever come up with that kind of storage? Wait, I know, 7 DVDs! Maybe even go the premium route and grab a couple of hard drives, those things inside the computer that store stuff. I really hope that's the official company line, we don't have old hand histories because we can't technologically store that much information, that just sums up everything right there.

[apefish]

1) Gary- looking forward to reading.
2) I encourage everyone to NOT tl;dr that Seif chat Nat posted. Read it.
3) While I understand Mark's frustration he should show half the indignation at Absolute that he has at the online community. Not everyone is witch hunting this- and I personally think he has nothing to do it, but he's largely in this spot because of Absolute Poker.

[goofyballer]

[edit for reading comprehension]

And A+ to Absolute Poker's IT team for apparently hosting all their server logs on a $800 Dell laptop.

[wdcbooks]

Mark Seif -

I can assume you are reading this. Can we please drop the defamation charges and insults towards those who question your play? You are the public face of a company that cheated its customers on a scale and with a brazenness that is just shocking. Of course your conduct and character is going to be called into question. That is part of the deal you made when you accepted the check to represent the organization.

I tend to believe that you weren't cheating and I alse believe those hand histories are lost, but your conduct here and the insults you are spewing are childish. You should have known that part of endorsing a site is tying your reputation to theirs. Acting like you aren't a part of this at this point is just absurd.