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#1
08-29-2007, 05:47 PM
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Questionable Out of Turn ruling at the Taj 12:15 Tourn. last Tuesday
Was playing the ~ 90 man $65 12:15 tournament at the Taj last week and ran into a weird situation. I'd been playing tight and still had most of my initial stack left - say about t4500 I think.
I'm UTG and pick up K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] - guy in MP announces "raise" before I do anything and then the dealer notifies him I still haven't acted (as I remember, the guy in UTG+1 had just got up and was skipping the hand I think and threw his cards away before I did which is prolly why this other guy acted out of turn I guess). Anyway, obv. I wanted to raise and then the dealer said whatever I did he'd have to raise. The guy called for the floor and most of the table said that what dealer said was incorrect and that I should play the hand like I normally would. It took awhile for the floor to come over so I acted and said "raise". I guess I could have waited but I just raised thinking that this guy could just call. Anyway, floor guy comes over, confirms that guy has to raise (guy goes nuts), the guy's obviously pissed (we chatted about it and I told him I didn't care and would just let him call no worries, but floor would not allow it so he had to raise which put him almost all in). Flop was AKx and we just went all in and he shows AJo. I hit another king and rivered quads which essentially knocked him out. Anyway, I spoke with guys at the Borgata tournament about it the next day and a lot of people seemed to think that the floor guy was incorrect and this guy either didn't have to raise my raise or that we could have worked it out between us? In retrospect I really should have waited til the floor came but it was just a weird situation and dealer and another guy at table were saying I should just do what I would have done normally in the situation. In retrospect I wish I hadn't bc I was not angling (guy was pissed at situation but said I was cool about whole thing) - since I rivered quads I think i could have just called and let him call/raise and would have potentially tripled up if blinds came along but whatever. What is the real rule? Thx!! Brag: ended up FT-ing it and finishing 6th! Beat: doubled my stack with the help of a questionable ruling but what can I do? (was this the correct ruling?) 
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#5
08-29-2007, 08:23 PM
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Re: Questionable Out of Turn ruling at the Taj 12:15 Tourn. last Tuesday
The ruling was definitely wrong.
He would only have to raise if you folded. Your action of raising means his out of turn action is null and void.
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#6
08-29-2007, 10:34 PM
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Re: Questionable Out of Turn ruling at the Taj 12:15 Tourn. last Tuesday
[ QUOTE ]
The ruling was definitely wrong. He would only have to raise if you folded or called. Your action of raising means his out of turn action is null and void. [/ QUOTE ] FYP - Check, Fold, or Call are all options that force his OOT action to stand...
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#7
08-29-2007, 11:07 PM
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Re: Questionable Out of Turn ruling at the Taj 12:15 Tourn. last Tuesday
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The ruling was definitely wrong. He would only have to raise if you folded or called. Your action of raising means his out of turn action is null and void. [/ QUOTE ] FYP - Check, Fold, or Call are all options that force his OOT action to stand... [/ QUOTE ] Thx guys....WTF with the Taj they also had earlier declared that a hand preflop was dead when the last card dealt got shown....when I was at the Borg everyone pretty much agreed that shown cards only nullify the hand if it's the first or second dealt....
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#8
08-30-2007, 12:27 AM
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Re: Questionable Out of Turn ruling at the Taj 12:15 Tourn. last Tuesday
[ QUOTE ]
Thx guys....WTF with the Taj they also had earlier declared that a hand preflop was dead when the last card dealt got shown....when I was at the Borg everyone pretty much agreed that shown cards only nullify the hand if it's the first or second dealt.... [/ QUOTE ] WTF is right!!! Are you talking about a dealer exposing a card while he is dealing? You get a new card if a dealer exposes your card. If he exposes two cards, it's a misdeal. This about a hand being dead is bogus.
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#9
08-30-2007, 12:32 AM
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Re: Questionable Out of Turn ruling at the Taj 12:15 Tourn. last Tuesday
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The ruling was definitely wrong. He would only have to raise if you folded or called. Your action of raising means his out of turn action is null and void. [/ QUOTE ] FYP - Check, Fold, or Call are all options that force his OOT action to stand... [/ QUOTE ] You are right that a check is a non-action but in this case, UTG pf can't "check". A call is definitely an action and the out of turn player can rescind his action. Just think of the scenarios. If you call a bet thinking you are heads up with a player when in the meantime a missed player also now calls, it changes your outlook on the hand. Just think about that for a minute.
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#10
08-30-2007, 12:34 PM
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Re: Questionable Out of Turn ruling at the Taj 12:15 Tourn. last Tuesday
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Thx guys....WTF with the Taj they also had earlier declared that a hand preflop was dead when the last card dealt got shown....when I was at the Borg everyone pretty much agreed that shown cards only nullify the hand if it's the first or second dealt.... [/ QUOTE ] WTF is right!!! Are you talking about a dealer exposing a card while he is dealing? You get a new card if a dealer exposes your card. If he exposes two cards, it's a misdeal. This about a hand being dead is bogus. [/ QUOTE ] Thx but at the Taj tourney they called the floor and after dealer exposed like the 2nd to last card to the guy in BB the floor ruling was the entire hand was dead!!! This was not a cash game but tourney but does it matter? I thought it made no sense and they should have just shown the card to everyone and given the BB guy another card, but since I had 74o I didn't complain....
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