i flopped the 2nd nuts...how do i maximize value..3 way pot 25/50 live

[dlpnyc21]

This was a weird hand I played last night at 25/50. I want to know what is the best way to maximize value in scenarios like these. I always somehow seem to win the minimum.

7 handed late night. Villian 1 is stuck and steaming, he could have any two here. Villian 2 is a tight rock from AC, Lenny for those that know him. The way the hand plays out I'm nearly 99% sure he has a 10.

25/50, I start the hand with 21kish, villian 2 has me slightly covered. I make it 400 from EP with AA. Villian 1 calls from SB Villian 2 calls from the straddle (25/50/100).

Flop comes decent for my hand, Ah10h10x. Villian 1 donks 1k (he could have any two, but he most likely has a made hand because I doubt he would donk a draw). Villian 2 (rock) calls the 1k bet. Villian 1 has 9500 left after his 1k bet.

Problem 1: is the right play here to raise or call, and why?


I decide to just call. Overcalling in this spot is kinda iffy, but I'm not sure what the right play is, and I was going for max value.

Turn 5s. Board is Ah10h10x5s. Checks to me I decide to bet 3k. Villian 1 chk raise shoves for 9500. Villian 2 goes into the tank.

He thinks for a long long while, asks me how much I have left, and calls.

I call behind.

Problem 2: What is the correct turn action for max value, and why. If I shove here, I am shoving for like 9800 more.

River is 9. board is A101059 flush missed.

He checks. I go into the tank and shove.


Where did I go wrong here?


Thanks,
dlpnyc21

ps. I know this is a simple spot, but I'm wondering what the best play is in general for getting max value, I find myself in spots like these a lot where my hand is virtually face up and I'm wondering how not to make it so.

[iRock]

I don't think your hand looks face up, esp to the rock. I think your hand looks like a flush/straight draw that is trying to take down the pot on the turn when everyone checks. Villain 2 is then playing the fact that Villain 1 is crazy and he almost certainly has him beat, so he'll just call the reraise to see what you do. I guess you could shove over on the turn, but then if you did that and he folds, your post would be "i should have just called right?" i think villain 2 is more than happy to play a 400bb pot with villain 1, but your hand behind he is afraid of and rather you raise the turn or call shove the river, he is prob going to fold either way.

[Mench]

I think you played this hand perfectly. River bet is tiny compared to the pot. I think you definatly maximized value.

Like you said villain 2 almost always has a 10 here, and I think your line should by no means scare him off, and it allows villain 1 to hang himself, which he did.

[NT!]

hand looks fine. i like to bet the river really fast given this action, but that's just me. it's a pretty small bet compared to the pot.

[dlpnyc21]

[ QUOTE ]
hand looks fine. i like to bet the river really fast given this action, but that's just me. it's a pretty small bet compared to the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

isn't shoving turn better than betting river? and i agree, i should have bet much much faster on the river.

[TheWorstPlayer]

yes, just shove the turn. then he can call with a draw or put you on one. you have much less than a PSB left so just put it in. he'll feel committed and call more easily on the turn than on the river.

[stephenNUTS]

If its LENNY from the Borgata(baseball cap,mirrored shades,SOLID intimidating looking,goutee')......he is as SOLID as the A/C regulars come.
I would venture from MY experience with him he has TEN here ALOT,or a KhQh/JhQh type combo-draw hand.

Lenny just calling vilian #1's shove, with you still behind that deep is puzzling with me knowing his playing style/habits?

Have you played with him before,and did he have some sort of read on YOU,or the strength of your hand you were repping?
He is QUITE good at putting people on hands,as well as laying down big hands also!

I assumed he FOLDED to your shove,and are asking if you overbet the river in your asking "where you went wrong"?

I dont know of how you could have bet less considering the pot size already........if he was on his big draw and missed,you werent getting paid anyway.If he had A10,his money would be in the pot.

I am very curious as to what the steaming villain #1 had,and more importantly Lenny's holding if he called?

Lenny is good enough to get away from ANY other ten ,except A10 and obviously T9 that he would have called the pre-flop bet to begin with IMO

I think you played this FINE!

Sweet FLOP though... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

~stephen

[Phatsac]

stephen your random usage of CAPS really infuriates me for some reason.

dlp-
i think a turn shove over a CRAI and overcall either is super strong or looks like you're trying to isolate SB. lenny's put in over half his effective stack in the pot already and if he is the rock you say then he obv has a super narrow range like JT-AT or TT.

what do you do with AK and AQ here?

[TheWorstPlayer]

hopefully you fold them very quickly

[IShearSheep]

These spots happen to me quite often also and I am always scratching my head after a hand like this just like you because when they do come along you analyze yourself to death and it seems you can always find a way to play it better. In this particular hand I think you should shove turn esp since you said you are 99% certain V2 has a ten. Obv up to this point your hand is not face up to V2 because he called your turn bet and an ai. And this pot has grown so large AND the fact that V1 is in the pot and steaming may have clouded his judgment a bit. If he somehow has kqh in this spot this would be another reason to get it in now cause he obv isn't calling river if he whiffs. As for the flop play I think you played it fine since you were in pos. If you were out of pos I generally like to minraise flops on hands like these to sink the hook in a little deeper in case someone does hit on the turn and if they are serious about the hand at this point they will usually call a minraise and if not you aren't getting any more money out them anyway. As far as your concerns about winning the minimum in hands on these(in general) and seemingly playing them face up, the fact of the matter is that is just the way it will be and unfortunately sometimes there is nothing you can do about that esp if it is against players you play with frequently. I have tried seemingly everything to extract max value on hands like these, everything from check cr cc check down to induce bet, whatever.