Short Poker Essay: How to get broke, how to get rich NLTRN - Page 2

ChicagoRy · #11 10-26-2007, 01:52 PM

I don't understand how brutal honesty on the forums or with yourself is > than drive and ability. I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just saying I don't understand how it is.

daveT, I think that concept is more regularly preached by the online world than the television world. You get more of the "I put him on blah blah so I called" in the live world, or used to IMO. But obviously the better players in both games are pretty much the same players, or moving more towards that and they all share this concept I'm sure.

Edit: I don't mean to get off topic with these posts, it's just I don't have a ton to say about most of your post, it's spot on and "good post" pretty much sums it up.

Indiana · #12 10-26-2007, 01:58 PM

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I don't understand how brutal honesty on the forums or with yourself is > than drive and ability. I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just saying I don't understand how it is.

daveT, I think that concept is more regularly preached by the online world than the television world. You get more of the "I put him on blah blah so I called" in the live world, or used to IMO. But obviously the better players in both games are pretty much the same players, or moving more towards that and they all share this concept I'm sure.

Edit: I don't mean to get off topic with these posts, it's just I don't have a ton to say about most of your post, it's spot on and "good post" pretty much sums it up.

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Yah i see the potential confusion with that statement. I guess what I mean is that on average, the TRUE poker skill difference between a winning and losing player really isn't so related to ability. I think its the other stuff that really makes up the difference. This "other stuff" is the kind of stuff Im talking about here.

Indy (I would imagine that there are smarter, more skillful poker players that make less than me in this game)

ghettointlectual · #13 10-26-2007, 02:01 PM

Thank you! You don't know how bad I needed to hear this

Indiana · #14 10-26-2007, 02:03 PM

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Thank you! You don't know how bad I needed to hear this

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We all do. I think we so easily forget this and just grind without really thinking about our goals in the game or what the hell it is that we are trying to accomplish.

Im lucky that I have a full-time staking deal with cwar and he constantly pounds this wisdom into me. Whenever I have a downswing we immediately discuss why, and that helps me rebound easily and learn from my misakes, while most guys just keep swinging downward and fail to be honest about it.

Indy

ChicagoRy · #15 10-26-2007, 02:06 PM

So basically what you're saying is the mental aspect is much greater than the skill aspect of the game.

It's tough for me personally to feel confident that either is more important, you can't win without both obviously.

It's just hard because confidence and skill go hand in hand. The better I am at this game the more confident I get.

I guess it depends on what a person's definition of skill is. If his definition is making money short term, then as you said he's not going to do as well as he should in this game. I wouldn't go as far as to say he will go broke, but he will definitely not maximize his profits.

Indiana · #16 10-26-2007, 02:13 PM

Well, if I sat you and phil ivey down and gave you an hour to think about a poker decision, I dont think his answer on average would be so much greater than yours. What I do believe, however, is that he is going to be better at implementation and psychology than you or me, as well as many other things.

Just knowing what to do in a poker hand isn't even enough to be a profitable player. We must implement it CONSISTENTLY, and that's a different skill altogether. This is why we must get ourselves addicted to making good decisions, because otherwise we will lose focus on what we are doing.

MattyMayor · #17 10-26-2007, 02:16 PM

i love you for this.

BarryLyndon · #18 10-26-2007, 02:45 PM

This made me feel so warm inside, I don't need a hug any more.

Barry
PS: being ADDICTED to making good decisions, yes, well put. Being addicted to THINKING about your POSTS helps. Now, if I can become addicting to making good decisions re: women, life, food, efficient pick up lines, etc., things may improve besides my game.

Barry

Dromar · #19 10-26-2007, 02:49 PM

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So true.

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I know it seems like "duh" this is just common sense. But what I'm saying here is that you have to get yourself ADDICTED to making good decisions. Otherwise you will be miserable and only marginally profitable at best.

If you sit down and say to yourself, "Im going to play until I make 500 bucks or whatever" you are headed down a dead end road. Sure, you may make 500 THAT DAY, but you will soon have a massive downswing because you are focusing on the wrong thing.

I hope I've helped someone with this today. Poker is not easy and the greatest part of your poker success will have little to do with your actual "skills". It will mostly come from your ability to deal with the psychology and your maturity level in the game.

Indy

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I agree completely. I just didn't have much to say about your OP, although it's very intelligent.

I'm at the stage where I value making the correct decision over winning the pot. And it really does have a huge effect. Suddenly, every session becomes either a big win or at least a small win, because you grade yourself based on your decision-making. I suppose if you make lots of bad decisions you might not be all that happy, but when you've got some experience, you eventually gain the confidence to trust yourself, and not second-guess yourself irrationally.

I think a large part of what helped me get to this way of thinking is that I went to college and got a degree in mathematics. Dealing with probability as much as I have, you realize that one instance doesn't mean anything, etc. and it's the longrun you have to look out for. Once you realize that, it's foolish to think of anything other than making the most +EV decisions you can.

daveT · #20 10-26-2007, 03:02 PM

If we play x hours per day, we expect to earn $y. If we make that great, if we go under, that sucks, but we will get it soon, if we go over, then brace for S*.

There is no way to beat the hourly expectation. It's a job like any other, just that the actual pay-check isn't consistent week to week.