Would this software be legal?

[topspinner]

I was wondering if there would be a way to incorporate Pokerstove into a pokerace/pokertracker program? For example, UTG raises, your pokerdata base shows that this player raises 10% of his hands from UTG, everyone folds to you on the button and you have kqs, the program would show you that you have for example 45% equity against the range that he would raise utg.

Is there anything like this out there and if so, would sites like pokerstar allow it?

[matt42s]

Very probably no. It's an undefined area right now - which is why i said in my "I'm done" thread that it will be an addon - as in an addon to PT3 or HM. It's way too close to the line for PT to integrate as a feature, so it will be an addon - and will very likely be banned, only to be followed by more and more "versions" released by more and more people. As the base functionality of PT increases, it will be easier to write the addons and more of them will exist. As the poker sites find out about them, they will be banned. Some coder's will keep their versions to themselves, others will release them to a select few customers, constantly upgrading them to stay ahead of the detection capabilities of the poker sites. At some point they will realise that the core database holds too much power and hand histories will be dropped. HH grabbers and screen scrapers will be written and be banned but there will always be "ways around" the rules. But don't worry, this will all take years to happen and for a short while after this software is first released, it will be very good for those who use it.

[freecard4all]

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it will be gushing cash at mid-stakes for those who use it and killer for NL tournaments.

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FYP

[dfan]

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... At some point they will realise that the core database holds too much power and hand histories will be dropped. HH grabbers and screen scrapers will be written and be banned but there will always be "ways around" the rules. ..

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If a poker site really wanted to get rid of the problem of datamining, fish finding, etc they could do it in a day. There is a very simple solution for which there is no work-around. They can simply allow players to change their screen names frequently. Hell, they could let players play anonymously.

That would be spell the end of most of the database driven software helpers, fish-farming, etc that some of these sites seem to be worried about. Interesting question is what would this policy do for the site? It could increase traffic if the site promoted the fact that no other players could datamine you. Or it could hurt traffic as the pro dataminers go elsewhere.

An intermediate answer that might be optimal for the sites - allowing a player to change his screen name semi-frequently, say once a month or even once a week. This would allow some short term trends to be picked up by observant regulars or via datamining, but the advantage would be much more limited.

[DWarrior]

Wouldn't an anonymous casino be easier to bot? Now you don't have to worry about player stats, since nobody else has any way of taking notes on the players.

If sites allow notes, then there would be dataminers that would put tags in players' notes with player IDs (although it would make datamining tougher).

[holdem2000]

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Interesting question is what would this policy do for the site? It could increase traffic if the site promoted the fact that no other players could datamine you. Or it could hurt traffic as the pro dataminers go elsewhere.

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Does anyone play on stars (or elsewhere) instead of full tilt because of the different data mining policies?

[a nonymous]

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Interesting question is what would this policy do for the site? It could increase traffic if the site promoted the fact that no other players could datamine you. Or it could hurt traffic as the pro dataminers go elsewhere.

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Does anyone play on stars (or elsewhere) instead of full tilt because of the different data mining policies?

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Yes. (Not me. But I've seen people mention that as a reason for playing at Stars before.) However, I doubt this is a major factor in the site's popularity.

It might be a different situation if a site made datamining even more difficult than Stars has though.

[ristas]

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... At some point they will realise that the core database holds too much power and hand histories will be dropped. HH grabbers and screen scrapers will be written and be banned but there will always be "ways around" the rules. ..

[/ QUOTE ]

If a poker site really wanted to get rid of the problem of datamining, fish finding, etc they could do it in a day. There is a very simple solution for which there is no work-around. They can simply allow players to change their screen names frequently. Hell, they could let players play anonymously.

That would be spell the end of most of the database driven software helpers, fish-farming, etc that some of these sites seem to be worried about. Interesting question is what would this policy do for the site? It could increase traffic if the site promoted the fact that no other players could datamine you. Or it could hurt traffic as the pro dataminers go elsewhere.

An intermediate answer that might be optimal for the sites - allowing a player to change his screen name semi-frequently, say once a month or even once a week. This would allow some short term trends to be picked up by observant regulars or via datamining, but the advantage would be much more limited.

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if players will play anonymously the part of the game containing notes and reads from previous sessions would be worthless and poker would loose a lot.
as for a problem of datamining poker sites might just not let to observe games.Simply all you could see would be stack sizes and names.

[freecard4all]

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as for a problem of datamining poker sites might just not let to observe games.Simply all you could see would be stack sizes and names.

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LOL what would you see then? Hidden cards and that "A player moved all-in on river and won with something you didn't know"?

BTW. it would make the data mining MORE IMPORTANT. Because now there's no sense in observing tables as a player (no human sensible information). But you still see the %s like showdown, raise preflop, etc.



I agree that if the sites really wanted to then the renaming feature would help a lot.

And everytime I hear "multitabling pros would move away" I have to really laugh! Why don't the pros move to the best and most friendly site for them (WPEX)?
The reason: pros follow fish. And average pro will more likely play with fish on crippled sw without any program aid than with other pros with all available aid.

So as long as the fish are happy the site can go either way.