Laying down AK in a tournament from a Poker Pro Magazine Article

[Sherman]

I agree w/Dave D.

Folding AK pre-flop is just plain stupid in most situations IMO. Other than Sat or ITM (meaning FT) considerations, I find it hard to believe that someone can determine a villain's range is exactly pairs and that AK is behind pairs. Beyond that, how can they determine that the villain is shoving with AQ in his range but not AJ? And not ATs?

The only way to know IMO, is to have some very very good reads and have witnessed the said villain to only be willing to shoving pocket pairs PF. That means he never shoves AQ or AJ PF. If you have a read that says he never shoves anything but pairs or AK PF, then fine. Go ahead and fold AK.

But seriously...when do you ever really have that read?

[JoeyJoJo Shabadu]

Shove it all in the middle.

Next question is how often is UTG shoving from UTG with AA KK QQ. AQ and TT and less is much more likely almost...in my donkaments at least.

[curtains]

What were the antes? With no antes, its probably ok to fold, but I suspect there were antes in play.

[LSgambler]

Online agaisnt like 90% of the players this is a very bad fold. Usually people never overbet so much with AA/KK/QQ. Its usually 77-JJ AK/AQ and maaaaybe AJ. So call all day.

[Hercules]

Chess,

i can just give u one answer...gambooooooool vs like almost everybody. I like never fold here and its definitely not a leak.

Ajax

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
Online agaisnt like 90% of the players this is a very bad fold. Usually people never overbet so much with AA/KK/QQ. Its usually 77-JJ AK/AQ and maaaaybe AJ. So call all day.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah exactly. I mean villian's not even really overbetting *that* much, his stack is pretty awkward to do anything else. A standard raise (3x) is 17% of his stack. He knows he's gonna be OOP, and he probably has a hand he doesn't want lots of people calling with. If I were in his position, I would be pushing any hand I play, except AA/KK, and maybe QQ, because I know I'm getting the rest of it in on the flop, and I can be more confident that AA/KK is still good on the flop.

Therefore that's an even better argument for calling, because we're almost sure he doesn't have AA/KK (as LSgambler has said), and very likely we're dominating his ace, or at worst a coinflip, with an overlay.

[gvegas]

Look if its a useless little small buy-in donkament than fine. Go ahead and gamble. But I find that this mentality of risking a huge % of your chips on what appears to be a small edge creeps into peoples play at bigger more important tournaments. The big stack should apply controlled aggression to the smaller stacks. You can use the advantage of being able to bust people to accumulate chips on your terms. I really don't know what they are pushing UTG in that spot and frankly given where the bubble is and our stack sizes, i don't care. Against the top 10% of hands (77+,AT+,KQ) i'm only 57%. The point of the article is don't fall in love with AK. Some people play the hand like Aces. If you want to only play for first place, fine, never fold big slick. But if you want to consistently make the money you are going to have to learn how to fold AK from time to time. Just because a call is theoretically +ev against a certain range doesn't mean its smart to do so. Risk management is an important consideration in tournaments.

[Sherman]

[ QUOTE ]
Risk management is an important consideration in tournaments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure is. Folding ITM is obv. the best tournament strategy.

[bismillahno]

[ QUOTE ]
Look if its a useless little small buy-in donkament than fine. Go ahead and gamble. But I find that this mentality of risking a huge % of your chips on what appears to be a small edge creeps into peoples play at bigger more important tournaments. The big stack should apply controlled aggression to the smaller stacks. You can use the advantage of being able to bust people to accumulate chips on your terms. I really don't know what they are pushing UTG in that spot and frankly given where the bubble is and our stack sizes, i don't care. Against the top 10% of hands (77+,AT+,KQ) i'm only 57%. The point of the article is don't fall in love with AK. Some people play the hand like Aces. If you want to only play for first place, fine, never fold big slick. But if you want to consistently make the money you are going to have to learn how to fold AK from time to time. Just because a call is theoretically +ev against a certain range doesn't mean its smart to do so. Risk management is an important consideration in tournaments.

[/ QUOTE ]

If KQ and AT are in his range, then folding AK is beyond awful.

Without a very specific read, I'm calling with AK every time here.

[gvegas]

I didn't say KQ and AT were in his range. I was trying to illustrate the fact that even with a relatively wide range as that you aren't exactly dominating with your 57% equity. Again unless you have a good read why do you have to get involved with Ace high at the moment? In fact why are we even bothering with strategy and a poker tournament at all? Why don't we just have a tournament where we flip a coin and the winner then moves on to the next round where the winners flip another coin etc...until we determine who got luckiest today. I try to minimize the amount of luck/variance i expose myself to, when possible.