How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players

[Chino Brown]

ANd how many of those people are actually playing for real money?? Maybe 10k if you're lucky. Out of those 10k, how many are playing the stakes that are relevant to this discussion? The games have shrunk since last year.

[curtains]

This thread is retardo

[Rushmore]

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Kenny Tran says that full-course golfers are better at full-course golf than miniature-golfers? Shocking.

The mini-golfers counter by saying their gazillion rounds of mini-golf mean they've played more rounds of real golf than the real golfers? Also shocking.

The consensus of posters on an INTERNET forum think that INTERNET poker players are better than real poker players? Okay, I'll just go have a heart attack now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you actually read any of the posts in this thread?

I would say t hat the virtual opposite of your post is what's happening here: A thread with the capacity to become a dumb pissing contest has turned into a well thought-out and genuinely interesting piece of information.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'd like to read the rest to see if it stands up.

[[Phill]]

[ QUOTE ]
ANd how many of those people are actually playing for real money?? Maybe 10k if you're lucky. Out of those 10k, how many are playing the stakes that are relevant to this discussion? The games have shrunk since last year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the games have shrunk. The statement was:

"stop lying about making money on the internet..No one plays there anymore except you guys -- you are just passing your bankroll to one another"

Im not touching on the first part or second part because its impossible to prove. I make money every month. I know lots of people who do. If that means we win from other 2+2ers (using a really loose definition of course) its irrelivent. A worse player is a worse player.

Anyway I decided to do 2 minutes of research. Stars averages 11.5k cash game players every day - note id imagine there are anywhere up to twice as many playing SnGs and MTTs but i cant be bothered spending more time researching it.

Across the 22 sites that PokerSiteScout tracks - 45k players are on these sites on average every day. There will be some double counting of people playing at multiple sites at once but the total will be somewhere near that figure.

Now, you wont have a fixed 45k playing day in, day out. Most of them will be losing players who will cycle in and out replacing one another and you will also have a lot of the playerbase not overlapping (ie, the euros playing in one half of the day, the americans the other half).

I think all in all ive totally crushed "No one plays [online] anymore except you guys" but feel free to counter these points.

[SmackinYaUp]

[ QUOTE ]
get a job --
stop lying about making money on the internet..No one plays there anymore except you guys -- you are just passing your bankroll to one another.. )

I don't play free rolls for hrs _ when I did I was getting paid to do something ELSE....

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why most old people should stay away from computers. As soon as you give a moderately intelligent middle aged man a computer with connection to the internet BAAMM!! they turn into drooling monkeys.

[markksman]

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and IMO being the best in nl cash games live means more than knowing this game on the technical side, but also ur attitude, ur personality and even abilities to engage in enjoyable conversation. the whales in the games are playing to have a good time. for all i know, i wouldn't want to play in a game where everyone else in the game can destroy me completely.


[/ QUOTE ]

You and Jessica heads up? I am backing her... and bringing a drool rag!



If that is how you define poker then jessica alba would be world class. We don't care if Kenny is really funny or good looking or whatever, we are trying to figure out how good he is at poker. He might be really good at getting weak players to keep playing, i dont think that alone would make him a great poker player.

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[markksman]

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To us it's absolutely obvious that the best online players are better than the live ones. I think the most logical argument you can have here is that the internet guys play up to 60 times more hands per hour (and usually put in a lot more hours as well). They also have more tools at their disposal to analyse/learn (hand histories, PokerTracker, PokerStove, forums). Wouldn't it be absurd if, despite that, the live pros would be better? Something would have to be horribly, horribly wrong for that to be true. How can someone debate this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have seen Barry Greenstein address this on this site. His argument is that the caliber of player you play against is much more important than how many hands you played. Playing 500,000 hands against inferior opponents is not going to make you better.

Think about it this way... Someone who played 500,000 hands of micro limits online is not necessarily going to be better than someone who has played 100,000 hands of nosebleed limits, right?

You need to actually play against better players to improve your game. Hand analysis is only worth so much. So the question becomes are there the caliber of players on either or both sides to make one or the other better just from the competition.

I have my own thoughts on the debate, but suffice it to say,I think the online and live games are very different creatures, and why there is so much trouble determining who has the biggest willy.

If numbers of hands and analysis was all that it took to master poker, than you could just spend a few years playing on freeplay tables, go over all the hands 80 hours a week, and soon you would be crushing everyone. You don't really think that would be possible, do you?

[SmackinYaUp]

It's very clear that online poker players are more skilled for many reasons. I'll try a single, different approach...

Before online poker, there was a smaller pool of "pros" to draw your cream of the crop from. There was just the locals near the casinos, the tourists, and the sharks living fat and happy.

The accessibility that online poker brought to the scene shook this happy little comfort zone all to [censored]. First, just the raw numbers of people playing poker increased so much that the odds are there will be more of those phenoms or whatever you want to call them that blow everyone else away.

Second, the accessibility of the game increased the competition tenfold. Here is a game that targets the younger generation (for the most part) that wants to make tons of money, get away from the 9-5 grind that is so tirelessly accepted by society, and wants it now.

All of a sudden the poker scene wasn't just tourists having fun and a few regulars gutting them every day. It became a million 20 year olds taking the game seriously and viciously fighting each other to make the money.

Not to mention hands per hour, data mining, and everything else that's already been mentioned.


Sounds like a bunch of hippy talk but there might be something to it

[limon]

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I am just a messenger here and don't even really know, for the most part, which players are involved.

Anyway about a month ago I happened to be in a (rare) 50-100 no limit holdem game with Kenny Tran, who I barely know, except that I hear he is one of the best high stakes cash game players. And I asked him how many of the top 20 high stakes NLH players nowadays, were mainly products of the internet. His answer was "zero, they can't lay down a hand."

Upon asking for elaboration, he told me that he was talking mainly about very high stakes, nine handed, live games. If the nine handed game happened to be on the internet his answer remained zero but it was closer. If it was a six handed internet high stakes game he now agreed that some of the top twenty would be those who are considered internet players. He also specified that he did not consider Patrick Antonius to be an internet player.

Again I barely know many of the players he was thinking of. And he didn't name them. If there are specific players who you are curious as to where he ranks them, you can ask me and I'll ask him. He gave me permission to start this thread which I am doing soley because it might generate discussion. I don't know enough to participate in that discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

tran is wrong about this. many of the "young guns" i play against are as good as the wcp's that came before them and before the internet AT HOLDEM. None (and i mean none) of the top 100 POKER PLAYERS in the world are products of the internet. every now and then one of the internet kids goes on such a big heater he wanders over to the big mixed game and the skill level is laughable...which leads me to believe that most dont understand poker in general. i remember huck seed, minutes after learning the basic rules of a game he was already a dangerous player, i havent met an internet guy like that yet. theyre brought up wrong.

[DGDolly]

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This thread is retardo

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Curtains has posted, thread closed.

Edit: David Sklansky was the OP, thread closed.