My leak: It's only 4 bucks! NLCASH

Vinetou · #1 09-12-2007, 01:54 AM

Here is the situation: the pot is limped, I am OOP, flop bottom pair, and the action goes checking all the way to the river when villain bets the pot. If it is 1/2NL, he will bet 4$ and I will always say: It's just 4$ and pay off. Instead, I should be looking at the odds and say I am getting 2 to 1. However, I can't beat anything. Villain knows there is a great chance I caught a piece of the board and so is he. So I don't believe anyone would bluff in this spot.

Here is an example.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($126.40)
Hero ($403)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Button calls $1, Hero checks.

Flop: ($4) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($4) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($4) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $4, Hero calls $4.

Final Pot: $12

I am pretty sure the correct play is a fold. With what do you call him here?

This post might seem funny to you because I am talking about only 4$, but this situations comes up often.

Schpacko · #2 09-12-2007, 04:36 AM

It depends on how often he's doing this. Some people try to steal these small pots on every occasion, some almost never do it.
This one is always a fold to me. I would need at least a 7 to call here, even if does this a lot.

Schpacko · #3 09-12-2007, 04:59 AM

btw: i would only bet here with a J or a Q or nothing at all like 42.

jakeduke · #4 09-12-2007, 08:40 AM

If villain is doing this a lot it's totally standard. It's obviously not a play you need to make every time, but you can't fold a pair every time he bets the river.

jay_shark · #5 09-12-2007, 09:34 AM

Another good question to ask is if it's better to bet the flop or not .

Without any additional information , I probably bet the flop and play accordingly .

Vinetou · #6 09-12-2007, 09:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Another good question to ask is if it's better to bet the flop or not .

Without any additional information , I probably bet the flop and play accordingly .

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like betting the flop. You will only get called if you are beat, or when they have a draw against you. I like to check call those hands. I figured this is better.

The problem is, if the board was like 3555A I call. But here, the board is just too scary.

jay_shark · #7 09-12-2007, 09:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another good question to ask is if it's better to bet the flop or not .

Without any additional information , I probably bet the flop and play accordingly .

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like betting the flop. You will only get called if you are beat, or when they have a draw against you. I like to check call those hands. I figured this is better.

The problem is, if the board was like 3555A I call. But here, the board is just too scary.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but isn't this better than check check and call the river ?

So if you're willing to call the river with bottom pair then you should be willing to make a bet on the flop .

I guess it all comes down to this . If you think the probability that you will win the pot on the flop(psb) is greater than the probability you will win if it's checked down , then you should bet the flop . Otherwise , consider checking .

I haven't worked out the math but I think it's close and can go either way .

Vinetou · #8 09-12-2007, 10:02 AM

I analyzed my sessions and one of my previous leaks was also that I was betting too much these bottom pairs in limped pots OOP. Somehow I figured that check calling is better.

jay_shark · #9 09-12-2007, 10:09 AM

If checking the flop is better , I would think that it's marginally better .

Also , if I check the flop behind , and villain comes out betting on the turn , then you're in a difficult spot . He's either bluffing or you're losing . It's usually an error to be calling unless they're maniacal .

Vinetou · #10 09-12-2007, 10:13 AM

I usually check call one time only with bottom pair. I am talking about situations when you have no reads. Otherwise, it is of course player specific.

In my example, I just don't think a solid villain is bluffing often enough to justify a call. I can't imagine solid villain even bluffing here.