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#1
02-18-2007, 11:19 PM
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should i not raise these?
both villains are mostly unknown. ive played sessions with both maybe 3-400 hands each, nothing absurd has stuck out, or been found by myself to be note worthy (and usually i take notes on most everything). Am i getting myself in potential trouble doing these kinda things or not?
villain raises UTG, Hero 3bets black AQo in hijack flop AhKhJh villain donks, hero calls turn 7 villain donks, hero raises.... Hero raises KhTd in CO, BB calls flop KdQd7d bb checks, hero bets, bb calls turn 5d bb checks, hero checks river 3 bb bets, hero raises.... im planning on folding both to a 3bet. Thoughts? if u dont like the 2nd in particular, how about if the river was a 5? how about if it was a flop card pairing, anything change in ur mind? If you think its fine what if our Td was the Jd? And if u bet the turn, bet folding or what? 
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#2
02-18-2007, 11:42 PM
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Re: should i not raise these?
Hand 1 - I think we're just asking to be 3 bet here by raising.
Also, I'd consider mucking pf depending on my read. Hand 2 - He's probably folding weak diamonds here so I don't think the bet has value and I'm thinking the only diamond he could have is the A given the flop call. The flop isn't exactly the greatest call for him and I'd anticipate a c/r with any piece of this flop so the call looks like the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
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#5
02-18-2007, 11:59 PM
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Re: should i not raise these?
Hand 2 I'd feel comfortable folding to the 3.
Hand 1 I'd feel uncomfortable calling down the 3; but while "how you'd respond to a 3" is one factor that goes into deciding whether to raise, I think it's much less important than "how often can you reasonably expect to get 3bet". In your case I'd say seldom, though obv. you were here.
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#6
02-19-2007, 12:28 AM
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Re: should i not raise these?
[ QUOTE ]
I think not raising hand 1 is pretty to very bad. Hand 2 I don't really care either way. [/ QUOTE ] why are we raising the anywhere in hand 1? When he bets, I pretty much hate my hand and just want to get to the SD
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#7
02-19-2007, 12:57 AM
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Re: should i not raise these?
Raise-folding the turn in Hand 1 seems hazardous to me since Villain is unlikely to have a flush or a set and you've got 10 outs against, for instance, AJ, and you have 9 outs against KJ.
Anyway, though, what I'd expect to see a lot instead is an ace with a straight-flush kicker (AxTh) or a king with a straight-flush kicker (KxQh). I'd imagine Villain usually won't 3-bet these on the turn, but I'm not positive we can count on him not to overvalue a hand with such great potential. Pocket underpairs with flush potential are also possible, I guess, and I really doubt Villain is 3-betting these. In any event, I'd imagine you're usually getting a bet out of him on the river one way or another if you're best and your hand holds up. So I guess it becomes a question of how often you think you're the one doing the charging on the turn when you go for that extra bet. Anyway, if the play is good, it only wins some fraction of a bet, really, since villain will sometimes have you beat, when he doesn't he'll nearly always have outs, and if you're bet-folding you do open yourself up to being outplayed at least occasionally. Still, is the raise +EV by some small amount? I don't know. Hand 2: Personally, I couldn't raise-fold here. I don't trust people to evaluate the strength of their hand accurately on unusual boards like this one (so you could on occasion run into an accidental bluff 3-bet), and also there's some chance Villain is still annoyed about whiffing on a turn checkraise with a flopped baby flush and will 3-bet irrationally. I think the raise itself is probably good, but I would hesitate to make it since I think you will get 3-bet a fair amount of the time and I wouldn't be able to find a fold to that 3-bet.
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