Blocking Bets in PLO

AbZurrrd · #1 06-20-2007, 05:02 PM

I've asked this some time ago and it didn't get any love, and since I'm still wondering, I need to ask.

Imagine you're OOP, and the pot is 2-3 handed. You called a pot size bet on the flop with a decent draw (like 8, 9 or 10 nut outs) and missed on the turn. The turn is not scary, and you suspect that after you check, the late position bettor will bet the pot w/ what looks like top two about 99% of the time.

Your hand does not really justify a big call, esp. if you think you can't get much implied odds if you hit (if he's a donk it's a different story since you could bet the whole pot on the river and get called).

So my question is: do you sometimes attempt a blocking bet (like 40% of the pot) to represent a something in this spot so villain get suspicious his hand might not be that good and therefore doesn't bluff or value bet by potting the turn, or do you think it's a total waste of $?

I am aware that in PLO most of the bluffing comes from LP after you check, and want to avoid or minimize this by not showing complete weakness, but often it's hard to lead into 2 people on the flop and even more on the turn when you have like 9 nut outs, so any suggestion is greatly appreciated, especially for a HU scenario.

jbird · #2 06-20-2007, 05:15 PM

The only problem with this is:

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The turn is not scary, and you suspect that after you check, the late position bettor will bet the pot w/ what looks like top two about 99% of the time.

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If the turn isn't scary at all, what is villain putting you on? Don't you raise a set in a 3 handed pot on the flop?

oneouterson · #3 06-20-2007, 05:25 PM

"If the turn isn't scary at all, what is villain putting you on? Don't you raise a set in a 3 handed pot on the flop?"

Certain players wouldn't.

I like a blocker bet if you have the right image.

iggymcfly · #4 06-20-2007, 05:35 PM

Since the specific question asks if I in bold ever try a blocking bet there, the answer's a definitive no. I'd never lead ~1/2 the pot with a strong hand, so I never do it with a weak one either.

I guess this could work in theory against a bad player, but it looks really transparent to a good player and if I have top two in this situation, I'm repotting almost always. Also, even bad players catch hands like top set and middle set which will gleefully repot here no matter what you're representing. Basically, the gain is so small when the play works and you get to see your draw for a little less than the right price that it's not worth it to flush $40 down the toilet the rest of the time.

Also, a really smart player might see through this so well that he'd repot here with a hand that he was planning on checking behind otherwise. I could see repotting with something like TP+NFD against someone who has a tendency to make these blocking bets when weak.

autobet · #5 06-20-2007, 05:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I guess this could work in theory against a bad player, but it looks really transparent to a good player and if I have top two in this situation, I'm repotting almost always. Also, even bad players catch hands like top set and middle set which will gleefully repot here no matter what you're representing. Basically, the gain is so small when the play works and you get to see your draw for a little less than the right price that it's not worth it to flush $40 down the toilet the rest of the time.

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The one advantage to this play is you will pick up a few pots when you opp was trying to steal on the flop, otherwise you will be at least called by better draws and raised by two pair on up.

On the other hand you might try playing an occassional set like this, and after your opps have seen it a few times use your blocking bet.

TheGrifter · #6 06-20-2007, 07:29 PM

I like this play when the turn DOES bring a scare card against tight opponents. If it's a drawy flop and then turn pairs a lot of people will give up often enough to make this profitable.

Also if you're on a wrap and the flush comes or on a FD and a wrap gets there you can pick up pots. I agree with the other poster that when a non-scare card hits it's a bit transparent. Only situation where it might work is on a paired flop where you could slowplay the FH but then it's too likely he has the hand you're representing.

Capitan23 · #7 06-20-2007, 08:05 PM

I'm not a fan of the blocker bet. 8,9, or 10 outs gives you around 20% to hit on the river, yet you suggest a blocker bet of about 40% of pot. I don't think the odds justify betting, I would much rather check/fold this draw. If I got a good read on my opponents I might try to buy the pot with a decent size bet, and if they call I still have outs.

AbZurrrd · #8 06-21-2007, 03:20 PM

Thanks guys for all the good stuff [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

beset · #9 06-21-2007, 11:32 PM

If I am going to semi-bluff here I am going to smash it so they might actually fold something. Like autobet said the stop and go type thing here works against regulars if you've done stuff like this with top two or a set+redraws or something enough to make it credible.

Kala1928 · #10 06-22-2007, 05:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not a fan of the blocker bet. 8,9, or 10 outs gives you around 20% to hit on the river, yet you suggest a blocker bet of about 40% of pot. I don't think the odds justify betting, I would much rather check/fold this draw. If I got a good read on my opponents I might try to buy the pot with a decent size bet, and if they call I still have outs.

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[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]((((((((((((((

You dont need pot odds to bet, this is something retarted that occasionally happens in limit games, but it does not have anything to do with pot limit and no limit games.

example.

You have the nut flush draw on a non-paired board and there are four other players in the pot, you check, next guy bets and everyone calls, you raise because you have 36% equity and you need to get called at 2 spots to make it even and if more people than 2 call you you win money.