NL 25: 96s makes a straight on the river

Nick C · #1 07-03-2007, 12:52 AM

Villain is 73/7/0.7 after 59 hands, and that pretty much sums up my impression of him as well, although he did seem at least slightly erratic. (I watched him limp-push preflop in a hand while I waited for my big blind after I first joined the table.)

I think the river checkraise is bad (I should have led instead), for reasons I'll explain later (possibly after you explain them first [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]). I'm not so interested in a preflop discussion, so I'll pre-emptively mention that I'm not at all sure raising preflop is worth the bother against this guy, while at the same time I'm perfectly happy to invest $0.15 with a hand as reasonable (versus a random hand) as 96s and try to outplay this guy postflop. Meanwhile, it's possible I should have stabbed at the pot earlier postflop despite his looseness, but I don't do that every time.

In any event, my question is really how I should respond to the river 3-bet. I mean, you've got to figure I've represented at least an ace and so usually my opponent will have a 6, but is it worth it to 4-bet on the chances that he just has a wheel (or worse) and will pay off, despite the fact that 76 is not entirely out of the question for him?

Versus an opponent I had some respect for, I wouldn't, but I didn't have much respect for this guy.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($24.55)
BB ($21.75)
UTG ($16.25)
MP ($34.95)
Button ($24.65)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

Turn: ($0.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

River: ($0.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.25, Hero raises to $1, BB raises to $2.75, Hero raises to $8 . . .

jessyj07 · #2 07-03-2007, 01:13 AM

Raise or fold preflop, calling is gross. Don't c/r the river, wtf are you doing? He's so passive how can you expect him to bet? He's so passive that he's not likely to have an ace, just call his reraise.

Nick C · #3 07-03-2007, 01:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise or fold preflop, calling is gross.

[/ QUOTE ]

Grr. Really, it's not.

The rest of what you said may be true, though.

Knuckles · #4 07-03-2007, 01:18 AM

I don't hate calling pf here. This gentleman is going to the flop no matter what you do, why bloat the pot with this hand? Just outplay him afterward.

I do hate the check raise, and I would just call his raise.

jessyj07 · #5 07-03-2007, 01:18 AM

I read what you said about not raising. That's bs though. Raise. I never fold here. Nobody says you have to c-bet if you don't hit and if you do hit just valuetown the [censored] out of him.

RedJoker · #6 07-03-2007, 01:24 AM

Calling preflop is fine, I certainly don't want a bloated pot OOP against a station when I only have 9 high. In fact I'm folding this a lot of the time.

I lead river. I re-raise him as much as I can. An ace is far more likely than 67 here. Often I'll overbet the river against a station as I'm unlikely to get re-raised but very likely to get called.

Nick C · #7 07-03-2007, 01:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I read what you said about not raising. That's bs though. Raise. I never fold here. Nobody says you have to c-bet if you don't hit and if you do hit just valuetown the [censored] out of him.

[/ QUOTE ]

And so you flop a hand worth value betting less than 1/2 the time, and then when you do flop AT6 (I'm counting that as a hand worth "value-betting" in the sense that it's usually going to be best) and then get called, then, well, I guess maybe it wasn't a value bet after all.

I'm not saying raising is horrible or anything; I just don't think completing is "gross."

KickerNotch · #8 07-03-2007, 01:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I read what you said about not raising. That's bs though.

[/ QUOTE ]
I fail to see what is b.s. about "Grr. Really, it's not." If limping is never an option for you here perhaps you should reasses why that is.

Everlong · #9 07-03-2007, 01:53 AM

re: river - idk. Close to zero aggression he probably has the 76 here and hate myself when he has the naked ace.

more interesting is the preflop discussion. I used to think along the "wtf raise or fold" line but I think calling here against this guy is the best play. As someone said we are seeing the flop no matter what so it might as well be cheap with a below average hand OOP.

I think we often give eachother flawed advice here ignoring the type of opponent, especially in pre-flop situations where villains stats are a dead giveaway for how he will react. Raising pos hands OOP against someone who never folds pre is like setting money on fire.

Villains showdown stats could tip it a bit either way for me but I'd probably limp pre regardless.

Limping pre also has a little side effect I like. In the unlikely event you have a decent player at the table and he sees what you show down he will insta-label you a fish.

sightless · #10 07-03-2007, 02:31 AM

shove river he overplays an ace a lot here