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#1
11-09-2007, 01:41 AM
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HU limit donk-please Help
hello, I recently started playing HU limit cash ( 2-4) and I really like it, but Im not very good at it,or so my results dictate.
I have a few quetions on how to fix up my game ( I searched this, but got mostly HU NL rather than limit) #1) PF rasing and limping range, I generally dont like to raise 8-5o and J-7 and all these 2-3 gappers. what about hands like K-2 Q-3? whats hands do you limp- and call a raise? what hands do u limp-fold ( or do ever limp fold in HU limit) #2) calling a 3bet range, are u insta-priced in to call a 3 bet preflop, considering you have postion even with a random hand 5-9s or Q-6o? #3) many of my oppenants are raising EVERY hand against me straight out the gate, w/out knowing how I play at all, I played 277 hands with an oppenant who raised 275 of those hands,and insta called all my 3 bets? how do I play oppenants like them? #4) is semi-bluffing as usefull a concept as it is in HU NL? I find open betting a flush draw works sometimes, but I never get anyone to fold to a 3bet when I flop a nutflush draw. #5) How much do I buy in for ? at 2-4 Im buying in for 50 at the moment, I find this to be okay in the sence that Im not in reload mode after 1 pot against me, and its not like Im gunna get stacked in 1 -2 hands with 50 either, is 50 enough ? #6) flow of the game in almost all my matches I bust for my 50$ one or twice only to come back and win it all back and then some. OR Ill bust my oppenant for 40-50 twice only to loose it all back and then some. and this momentum is hard to brake, one I start getting grinded down, I inevetibly go broke, and when I start I comeback, I get it all back ? are the momentum swings the norm in Limit ? I know HU is player dependant I jsut want some generall guidlines to go by as a template. ANY IMPUT IS GREATLY APPRECIATED [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] 
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#3
11-09-2007, 06:59 AM
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Re: HU limit donk-please Help
Disclaimer: I'm not an HU limit expert, but I do play HU (5/10 to 10/20) occasionally when I'm not grinding MTT's, with pretty good results.
[ QUOTE ] #1) PF rasing and limping range, I generally dont like to raise 8-5o and J-7 and all these 2-3 gappers. what about hands like K-2 Q-3? whats hands do you limp- and call a raise? what hands do u limp-fold ( or do ever limp fold in HU limit) [/ QUOTE ] Lately I've been trying to be more aggressive and raise a pretty wide range. Ax, Kx, Qx-Jx-Tx suited, any suited connectors down to 54s, and two cards higher than an 8, etc. If my opponent is playing tighter than he should, I raise a wider range, if he's 3betting me a lot, I'll tighten up somewhat. I fold hands like 93o, J2o, T4o, etc. Basically offsuited non-connectors. I do limp Q7o-Q2o though if conditions are right for it. I never limp fold. [ QUOTE ] #2) calling a 3bet range, are u insta-priced in to call a 3 bet preflop, considering you have postion even with a random hand 5-9s or Q-6o? [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I don't ever raise and then fold to a 3bet. If I'd ever see anyone do it I'd assume that he misclicked or is awful. [ QUOTE ] #3) many of my oppenants are raising EVERY hand against me straight out the gate, w/out knowing how I play at all, I played 277 hands with an oppenant who raised 275 of those hands,and insta called all my 3 bets? how do I play oppenants like them? [/ QUOTE ] 3-bet a wider range for value. Also mix in some calls occasionally with strong hands. If your opponent is very aggro postflop as well, let him hang himself when you flop decent and c/r the flop or turn depending on the strength of your hand and board texture. Sometimes you can even let him bet all three streets and c/r the river w/ TPGK kind of hands. Mix it up with some donks here and there as well. You obv want to be leading and c/r your draws as well, as it will make it harder for your opponents to read you. Basically you need to find a good frequency for your donks, flop c/r, turn c/r, and it will be very opponent related on what frequency is optimal. [ QUOTE ] #4) is semi-bluffing as usefull a concept as it is in HU NL? I find open betting a flush draw works sometimes, but I never get anyone to fold to a 3bet when I flop a nutflush draw. [/ QUOTE ] I do a lot of semibluffing c/r, but more so on the flop than on the turn. Let's say I call an aggressive opponents raise w/ 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. If the flop is J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], I'll c/r this almost always and lead any turn. Same with a Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [ QUOTE ] #5) How much do I buy in for ? at 2-4 Im buying in for 50 at the moment, I find this to be okay in the sence that Im not in reload mode after 1 pot against me, and its not like Im gunna get stacked in 1 -2 hands with 50 either, is 50 enough ? [/ QUOTE ] Since it's limit buy-in for whatever you feel like, as long as you have enough to play any hand for the max number of bets on every street. [ QUOTE ] #6) flow of the game in almost all my matches I bust for my 50$ one or twice only to come back and win it all back and then some. OR Ill bust my oppenant for 40-50 twice only to loose it all back and then some. and this momentum is hard to brake, one I start getting grinded down, I inevetibly go broke, and when I start I comeback, I get it all back ? are the momentum swings the norm in Limit ? [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, swings can be wild, so be prepared to take a seat on the variance rollercoaster that is HU limit. It's important though that you don't let it affect your game. If you lose a couple of hands that you got suckouted in, keep a steady head and plow along. Lot of players will let it affect their games though, so always keep watch if losing or winning a few hands has any effect on your opponents play. [ QUOTE ] I know HU is player dependant I jsut want some generall guidlines to go by as a template. ANY IMPUT IS GREATLY APPRECIATED [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] It's very player dependant, which is why guidlines won't help much, so take my advice for what it's worth. Good luck.
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#4
11-09-2007, 07:12 AM
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Re: HU limit donk-please Help
Any general advice on playing really loose-passive opponents? I'm talking about guys who rarely raise preflop, call very loosely postflop, and only get aggressive with a decent hand. One odd thing I've noticed is that these guys seem to actualy play more tightly on the flop when I haven't raised preflop. Would it be correct to raise a lot less against this type of player?
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#5
11-09-2007, 07:43 AM
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Re: HU limit donk-please Help
[ QUOTE ]
Any general advice on playing really loose-passive opponents? I'm talking about guys who rarely raise preflop, call very loosely postflop, and only get aggressive with a decent hand. One odd thing I've noticed is that these guys seem to actualy play more tightly on the flop when I haven't raised preflop. Would it be correct to raise a lot less against this type of player? [/ QUOTE ] sounds like you need to punish them preflop by playing strcitly value vs. their opening range. Then you can play a fairly normal game except you can fold/call to their raises more.
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#6
11-09-2007, 11:44 AM
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Re: HU limit donk-please Help
[ QUOTE ]
hello, I recently started playing HU limit cash ( 2-4) and I really like it, but Im not very good at it,or so my results dictate. I have a few quetions on how to fix up my game ( I searched this, but got mostly HU NL rather than limit) #1) PF rasing and limping range, I generally dont like to raise 8-5o and J-7 and all these 2-3 gappers. what about hands like K-2 Q-3? whats hands do you limp- and call a raise? what hands do u limp-fold ( or do ever limp fold in HU limit) #2) calling a 3bet range, are u insta-priced in to call a 3 bet preflop, considering you have postion even with a random hand 5-9s or Q-6o? #3) many of my oppenants are raising EVERY hand against me straight out the gate, w/out knowing how I play at all, I played 277 hands with an oppenant who raised 275 of those hands,and insta called all my 3 bets? how do I play oppenants like them? #4) is semi-bluffing as usefull a concept as it is in HU NL? I find open betting a flush draw works sometimes, but I never get anyone to fold to a 3bet when I flop a nutflush draw. #5) How much do I buy in for ? at 2-4 Im buying in for 50 at the moment, I find this to be okay in the sence that Im not in reload mode after 1 pot against me, and its not like Im gunna get stacked in 1 -2 hands with 50 either, is 50 enough ? #6) flow of the game in almost all my matches I bust for my 50$ one or twice only to come back and win it all back and then some. OR Ill bust my oppenant for 40-50 twice only to loose it all back and then some. and this momentum is hard to brake, one I start getting grinded down, I inevetibly go broke, and when I start I comeback, I get it all back ? are the momentum swings the norm in Limit ? I know HU is player dependant I jsut want some generall guidlines to go by as a template. ANY IMPUT IS GREATLY APPRECIATED [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] 1) You should never limp and fold in limit hold em . It's almost always correct to raise or fold from the button . If you decide to limp , it's usually with the intention of limp re-raising to gain 2 bets instead of 1 . This can be accomplished with your strong hands against an aggressive player . All the hands you mentioned are pretty marginal with the exception of maybe j-7 so I'll either raise with them or fold . 2) Of course , you have the correct odds to see a flop . 3) Well your opponent is over-playing some of his hands because it's correct to fold your worst hands . However , he's right in that once you raise , you cannot fold anymore since you're getting great odds to see a flop with even something as crap as 2-3 o . You may want to check out www.poker-academy.com to see how some of the bots play limit hold em . You'd be very surprised at how effective they play and you will never see them fold to a 3-bet . 4) At the higher limits , bluffing with the right frequency can often times separate the pros from the ordinary players . One who has a thorough knowledge in game theory is at an advantage over his adversaries . However , it's important that you do not semi-bluff too often or that you semi-bluff too little . Finding the right balance against each opponent is a hard skill to master but with experience it can be achieved . To put it succinctly , if your semi-bluffs are not working then don't semi-bluff as often . If your opponent folds often enough to your semi-bluffs , then it can be a valuable tool . 5) 50 is more than enough . In limit hold em , the maximum amount of money you can lose on a hand is 4+4+8+8 = 24 big blinds or 12 big bets . So with that being said , anything more than 12 big bets will suffice but you may want more to avoid the hassle of always having to reload . This is very different in NL where many players advocate having 100 big blinds in a given session . 6)A typical standard deviation for the limit player is something like 20 big blinds/100 hands . So with a win-rate of 2 big blinds/100 hands , you can expect to win anywhere from 2 + 2*20=42 to 2 - 2*20=-38 about 95% of the time in your first 100 hands . So even if you're a great player , there is a 95% chance that in your first 100 hands you've won anywhere from 42 big blinds to losing 38 big blinds . These swings are very common in limit hold em , but if we're adequately bankrolled , things will eventually fall into place for the winning player .
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