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  #1  
Old 11-18-2007, 03:56 PM
MrMore MrMore is offline
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Default What the smartest Vegas poker boss will do.

1. Move from 10-handed tables to 9-handed. More hands per hour, and more action per hand. Short handed games play faster and looser. 9-handed isn't much shorter or faster, but since when do suits not want small benefits?

2. Switch from deep-stack to mid-stack or small-stack NL. IOW, switch to LA-style NL. 5/10 with $500 buy-ins. Much more action, much more fun. I don't think anyone in Vegas spreads games like this.

3. Jackpot, NL seperate pool. Some Vegas joints offer this. All but the B should.

4. Free food. Or, $3/hr comp rate. Be GENEROUS to your customers. Make them feel like kings while they're losing to you. Every penny you save them, you get anyway. They're almost all playing to the extent of their disposable income, so a dollar you save them on food is one more dollar they have to play with.



Okay, ALL these suggestions, ex. the food, are hugely anti-nit. But no smart poker boss worries about the nits in his ear (and if you've even been a poker boss, you know they really are in your ear with their stupid NIT suggestions and whines). Ignore the nits. Nits follow action. So, get the action. And action WANTS action. They WANT big blinds relative to the buy-ins. They WANT jackpots. They WANT more hands per hour. They WANT to be able to play looser, and play with people who are playing looser. And the difference in looseness between a 5/10 NL with $500 buy-ins, and a 2/5 NL with $1000 buy-ins is HUGE. There's a reason Oceanside has the toughest games in SoCal, and the Commerce the softest. Be like the Commerce.

Most importantly, stop trying to be like the B. I can't understand why there are so many pale versions of the B. The B is different, but it seems like all the Vegas poker bosses look at the city's most successful room and think: let's do what they do. [censored] what they do. Give them an endrun. Throw them a curve ball.

Cliff's notes: someone in Vegas should run an LA-style room.
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  #2  
Old 11-18-2007, 03:59 PM
Bishop22 Bishop22 is offline
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Default Re: What the smartest Vegas poker boss will do.

[ QUOTE ]


someone in Atlantic City should run an LA-style room.

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #3  
Old 11-18-2007, 04:51 PM
Ghazban Ghazban is offline
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Default Re: What the smartest Vegas poker boss will do.

Midstakes NL games with very low caps would never last in Vegas IMO.
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  #4  
Old 11-18-2007, 06:33 PM
Rick Nebiolo Rick Nebiolo is offline
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Default Re: What the smartest Vegas poker boss will do.

[ QUOTE ]
Midstakes NL games with very low caps would never last in Vegas IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Disagree. An under-performing room with foot traffic and enough players to start games (but not enough to go to capacity) would do well with something even more extreme than the LA fixed/spread buy games.

For example, I'd try 5-5 blind with a $100 fixed buy. Put it near the rail. Call it "TV style all-in poker" or something similar. Must be felted to rebuy. Make it super easy (i.e., not embarrassing and very convenient) to get another hundred in chips. Put the promotion money into things that attract the casual gambler, not the local nits.

I think the games would look like the $20 buy (with $1/$1 blinds) or the $40 buy (with $1/$2) blinds behind the bar at Hawaiian Gardens. It's party city and the most packed part of any casino in LA.

~ Rick
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  #5  
Old 11-18-2007, 06:51 PM
punkass punkass is offline
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Default Re: What the smartest Vegas poker boss will do.

[ QUOTE ]
For example, I'd try 5-5 blind with a $100 fixed buy. Put it near the rail. Call it "TV style all-in poker" or something similar. Must be felted to rebuy. Make it super easy (i.e., not embarrassing and very convenient) to get another hundred in chips. Put the promotion money into things that attract the casual gambler, not the local nits

[/ QUOTE ]

this sounds like a great game that I would rarely play, unless i wanted to gamble. I like low variance play. But this game may be good to get the high action players in.
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  #6  
Old 11-18-2007, 06:56 PM
Poshua Poshua is offline
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Default Re: What the smartest Vegas poker boss will do.

IIRC, the Wynn does have 9-handed tables.

I seriously doubt that a $3 comp rate would be +EV for the casino. Raising the comp by $2 in a room with 180 players on 20 tables costs $360/hr. Hourly rake is probably something like $3 avg. rake x 30 hands/hr x 20 tables = $1800. So, that's 1/5 of your poker income down the drain as additional comps.

It's not even good enough to draw another 36 players to open four new tables and generate $360/hr more in rake. Not only do you have to comp those players, you have to provide dealers and floor staff, and serve them drinks. You'd probably have to boost traffic by more than 50% to make this drastic rake increase worthwhile, and I think that'd be a tall order.

I also think it's untrue that Vegas customers are "almost all playing to the extent of their disposable income."
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  #7  
Old 11-18-2007, 07:13 PM
yogadude yogadude is offline
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Default Re: What the smartest Vegas poker boss will do.

1. Move from 10-handed tables to 9-handed. More hands per hour, and more action per hand. Short handed games play faster and looser. 9-handed isn't much shorter or faster, but since when do suits not want small benefits?

2. Switch from deep-stack to mid-stack or small-stack NL. IOW, switch to LA-style NL. 5/10 with $500 buy-ins. Much more action, much more fun. I don't think anyone in Vegas spreads games like this.

3. Jackpot, NL seperate pool. Some Vegas joints offer this. All but the B should.

4. Free food. Or, $3/hr comp rate. Be GENEROUS to your customers. Make them feel like kings while they're losing to you. Every penny you save them, you get anyway. They're almost all playing to the extent of their disposable income, so a dollar you save them on food is one more dollar they have to play with.<<<<<<<<<<

I agree with #1 and who can argue with #4.

#2/#3 I totally disagree with. At Commerce the blinds are 2-3 for the $100 and 3-5 for the $200. With this structure you really dont get to play much poker and must play a conservative strategy until you build up a few buy-ins. I can understand why this may seem nitty but I can tell you from experience that no one is a long term winner by playing loosely in these games. To be honest, after about 5 years of watching these games I rarely see a player who wins consistently. I have even doubted there was much of an edge in these games. If you play loose in these games you will simply be called down every time and need to show a winner. I much prefer the games in LV where you can buy in for 100 BB's to start. This format rewards patience more and allows you to out-wait the bad players. I know you like to think you can outplay the bad players but unless they play bad-tight (rare) as opposed to bad-loose (95% of bad players are too loose) the only way you can outplay them is to exercise patience and wait for them to smack right into ya. So I say NO! to high blind to buy in ratio games. To be honest I totally resent the LA casinos because they do everything they can to maximize their profits by raking sick amounts and minimizing the skill factor of the game with these stupid structures. If the games were better structured I would spend 60 hours a week there for sure.

I am also strongly against jackpots. The rake is already high enough. Sure, you get your money back in the long run but most likely you will die before you get your share of the jackpot drop back.

gl

yoga
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  #8  
Old 11-18-2007, 07:21 PM
PartysOver PartysOver is offline
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Default Re: What the smartest Vegas poker boss will do.

better for the casinos to have 10 handed tables
1) less space needed
2) less staff needed

it's not like an online room where you get free tables and dealers.
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  #9  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:20 PM
eof eof is offline
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Default Re: What the smartest Vegas poker boss will do.

[ QUOTE ]

IIRC, the Wynn does have 9-handed tables.

I seriously doubt that a $3 comp rate would be +EV for the casino. Raising the comp by $2 in a room with 180 players on 20 tables costs $360/hr. Hourly rake is probably something like $3 avg. rake x 30 hands/hr x 20 tables = $1800. So, that's 1/5 of your poker income down the drain as additional comps.

It's not even good enough to draw another 36 players to open four new tables and generate $360/hr more in rake. Not only do you have to comp those players, you have to provide dealers and floor staff, and serve them drinks. You'd probably have to boost traffic by more than 50% to make this drastic rake increase worthwhile, and I think that'd be a tall order.

I also think it's untrue that Vegas customers are "almost all playing to the extent of their disposable income."


[/ QUOTE ]


it doesn't cost them quite as much because it doesn't cost them 3 dollars when you spend 3 dollars (unless its 3 dollars you would have spent anyway). if you use 15 dollars on a buffet you wouldn't have gone too anyway, that 15 dollars cost them 4-5 dollars.
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  #10  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:32 PM
jjshabado jjshabado is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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Default Re: What the smartest Vegas poker boss will do.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

IIRC, the Wynn does have 9-handed tables.

I seriously doubt that a $3 comp rate would be +EV for the casino. Raising the comp by $2 in a room with 180 players on 20 tables costs $360/hr. Hourly rake is probably something like $3 avg. rake x 30 hands/hr x 20 tables = $1800. So, that's 1/5 of your poker income down the drain as additional comps.

It's not even good enough to draw another 36 players to open four new tables and generate $360/hr more in rake. Not only do you have to comp those players, you have to provide dealers and floor staff, and serve them drinks. You'd probably have to boost traffic by more than 50% to make this drastic rake increase worthwhile, and I think that'd be a tall order.

I also think it's untrue that Vegas customers are "almost all playing to the extent of their disposable income."


[/ QUOTE ]


it doesn't cost them quite as much because it doesn't cost them 3 dollars when you spend 3 dollars (unless its 3 dollars you would have spent anyway). if you use 15 dollars on a buffet you wouldn't have gone too anyway, that 15 dollars cost them 4-5 dollars.

[/ QUOTE ]

I also think that some percentage of that money comes back to them (certainly not even close to 100%). IE. Some people bring $300 to the casino to spend. They leave when they run out. If they spend $20 at the buffet thats $20 less then they gamble with, if they use comps they gamble with that. Also some people save up comps to use on hotel rooms so more comps mean those people are in the casino more often.

That being said I don't see it being that profitable to casinos to up the comps. As much as I'd love for it to happen.
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