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Old 11-17-2007, 03:18 AM
Cody1982 Cody1982 is offline
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Default Every Poker Player Should Know


I have a few basic questions. I hear these terms and see them in them in forums and think it's about time I found out what they were. Hope you can help.

What is EV and how do you calculate it ?

What is fold equity and how do you determine it ?

Is cEV the same as EV ?
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  #2  
Old 11-17-2007, 03:44 AM
WHITEBOYAEHS WHITEBOYAEHS is offline
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Default Re: Every Poker Player Should Know

ev is expected value. it is the sum of the probabilities multiplied by the outcomes of a given event. for example... if you bet $5 on a coin toss...half the time you win $5 and half the time you lose $5...so the ev of the coin toss is .5(5)+.5(-5) which = 0...ev is like calculating the average result in the long run of doing something (applies heavily to poker)

fold equity is hard to determine mathematically but is basically a factor in making a bet which takes your opponents probability of folding into account.

cev is not the same as ev. cev is the ev of a tournament play as far as the CHIPS are concerned. but since the chips do not have direct $ value... the $ ev is usually calced and given the most importance.

i hoped that helped man
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Old 11-17-2007, 04:39 AM
pococurante pococurante is offline
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Default Re: Every Poker Player Should Know

EV is simple. If you're 70% to win a $100 pot, your EV is $70. If you're 50% to win, 10% to tie, 40% to lose, your EV is $55.

Fold equity is the value that your hand gains when you bet. Suppose you're up against a tight player who usually folds marginal hands to a raise. You have 42, he has T7, so you're about 30% to win right now. But if you bet, you will gain fold equity, and might be around 80% to win (because he will often fold, and even if he calls you're still 30% to win).

Read this for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fold_equity

cEV is pretty unimportant. Almost all of the time, your cEV will be the same as your regular EV. cEV is mostly involved with situations that almost never actually happen.

For instance, you and 3 other people are left in a SNG. The top two finishers win an equal prize, 3rd and 4th pay nothing. You are dealt AA, and all 3 opponents go all in ahead of you.

If this was a cash game, you definitely call. But because of the unusual circumstances of the tournament, it's much more profitable to fold your pocket aces here.
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  #4  
Old 11-17-2007, 03:47 PM
Vetgirig Vetgirig is offline
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Default Re: Every Poker Player Should Know

cEV = chip EV - the chips expected value
$EV = money EV - the money expected value

In cash games cEV equals $EV - but in turnaments near the bubble and ITM cEV differs a bit from $EV like in the example in previous reply. Sometimes its better to fold the best hand because it means one will move up in prize money i.e. then cEV != $EV.
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  #5  
Old 11-19-2007, 06:15 AM
drzen drzen is offline
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Default Re: Every Poker Player Should Know

[ QUOTE ]
EV is simple. If you're 70% to win a $100 pot, your EV is $70. If you're 50% to win, 10% to tie, 40% to lose, your EV is $55.

Fold equity is the value that your hand gains when you bet. Suppose you're up against a tight player who usually folds marginal hands to a raise. You have 42, he has T7, so you're about 30% to win right now. But if you bet, you will gain fold equity, and might be around 80% to win (because he will often fold, and even if he calls you're still 30% to win).

Read this for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fold_equity

cEV is pretty unimportant. Almost all of the time, your cEV will be the same as your regular EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your cEV is nearly always *not* the same as your $EV unless you are playing a cash game.

In an MTT early, they're pretty close.

It's curious that you mentioned SNGs, because in a standard SNG, cEV != $EV until you are heads up. That's easily demonstrated by considering this:

Ten-player $10 SNG, payouts 50, 30, 20. All four players have identical stacks of t3750. Player A and player B check flop and turn, and get their chips all in on the river. Player A shows the nuts and doubles up. His chips double but his dollar equity cannot (his equity can never be more than $50 because he can never win more than that). His cEV when called on the river was (a bit more than) 100% (more than it because he stood to gain two blinds already in the pot as well as his even-money bet), but his $EV is not.

Interestingly, the other two players had no cEV at all, because they did not play the hand, but both gained $EV.
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