|
|
#42
08-15-2007, 04:00 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: ACism in one country or need for a world revolution?
I started a similar thread because I suck at finding threads. I also think this topic can be addressed without degrading into a debate on the purpose or morality of the state.
I think I had a different take on this question. Do people think an AC territory would be able to function as such while protecting itself from outside state interference, and why? 
|
|
#43
08-15-2007, 04:02 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: ACism in one country or need for a world revolution?
[ QUOTE ]
I started a similar thread because I suck at finding threads. I also think this topic can be addressed without degrading into a debate on the purpose or morality of the state. I think I had a different take on this question. Do people think an AC territory would be able to function as such while protecting itself from outside state interference, and why? [/ QUOTE ] Possibly but I wouldn't risk it personally. I gave up my money the last time I got mugged at knife point too.
|
|
#44
08-15-2007, 06:09 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: ACism in one country or need for a world revolution?
AC in one country sounds so much like the old Trotsky-Stalin debate about socialism in one country. Stalin said one country (USSR) could carry on indefinitely as socialist, even advancing toward communism. Trotsky said unless revolution spreads rapidly to Europe, socialism in the USSR will be overwhelmed by capital.
Stalin lost the argument, and so will the ACists. Old Stalinist joke: Two Trotskyites are sitting on a hillside gazing at the heavens. A flying saucer glides down and lands in the valley below. One trot says: "Wow. The planet that came from must have some really advanced communism to turn out such a technological wonder." The other trot says: "You idiot. You know you can't have communism on only one planet."
|
|
#46
08-15-2007, 07:28 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: ACism in one country or need for a world revolution?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 1. Anarcho-capitalism cannot 'work'. Anarcho-capitalism cannot do anything because it is not an actor. Only people can act. [/ QUOTE ] 1.Sorry if English is only my third language and I do no take time to see if all my sentences are worded correctly on an internet forum...but thanks for the correction anyway. [/ QUOTE ] Your English was fine in what you said and most native English speakers would say it the same way. Nielso was just being overly picky about using that word there. It's also worth noting that Nielso's first language is not English either. [/ QUOTE ] And the language of logic is totally foreign to him. [/ QUOTE ] There are four types of Copernicus posts: 1) Replies where he actually tries to provide some content. Unfortunately, he can't figure out how to actually format his replies, so nobody ever reads them. He might be the greatest genius ever, but we'll never know because people see his comments in red, mixed into paragraphs with what he's trying to reply to, and instantly say "I can't read this [censored]" and go to the next post. 2) Replies where he brags about who he's got on ignore. 3) Replies where he just lobs a turd insult. 4) Replies where he makes thinly-veiled brags about billing $500/hour, 40+ hrs/week, even though he's posting here all day. That pretty much covers everything, doesn't it? [/ QUOTE ] Give Copernicus a break. He found the one person on the board who makes less sense than him. He probably has good table selection at poker, just as he chooses to just insult Neilsio.
|
|
#47
08-15-2007, 08:37 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: ACism in one country or need for a world revolution?
[ QUOTE ]
the title was actually a refence to this debate, which I belived to be as relevant for AC than for commmunism. Apparently Acist do not. [/ QUOTE ] Absolutely. Allow me to try and fire up the debate. Hey you ACists, There can never be anarcho-capitalism in just one country or region. The state is so powerful and dynamic, it will quickly devour any AC experiment. The only way AC could survive is if the world were AC from get-go, which would be magic. And since AC cannot survive in one area, it can never expand to the world. (That was the part Trotsky's thinking did not quite reach). The thing about the state is that it is like the blob. If any teeny part survives the revolution, it will quickly reconstitute itself. Oh, and the other problem is that ACists have no strategy for defeating the capitalists who built the state for their pleasure. They haven't even realized they need a planning committee on destroying the bourgeoisie. Leninists at least had a plan for taking power: concentrate labor organizing in heavy industry so you can bring everything to a halt. Build influence in the military by promising to free it from being cannon fodder, then use it to finish off the state once your unions create a crisis. THAT was a strategy, it identified key pressure points. The ACist plan is: "We'll educate people about freedom and stuff."
|
|
#48
08-16-2007, 12:02 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: ACism in one country or need for a world revolution?
Seems to me that these kinds of actions would constitute the formation of a new state anyhow. Do you think a certain form of state is tolerable or necessary for a transition? Otherwise aren't you just saying that any achievement of anarchy is impossible because of the regenerative power of the state?
|
|
#49
08-16-2007, 02:35 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: ACism in one country or need for a world revolution?
[ QUOTE ]
Seems to me that these kinds of actions would constitute the formation of a new state anyhow. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, exactly. Sorry I wasn't clearer. [ QUOTE ] aren't you just saying that any achievement of anarchy is impossible because of the regenerative power of the state? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. That, and you cannot destroy a state without creating a cohesive organization to do it, which would constitute a state. I believe the human animal is extremely adaptable, and probably an anarchist or anarcho-capitalist system might well be viable once it exists. I just see no plausible way of reaching that point. We can't get there from here. The state won't waste away, as old communists believed. Who knows, we might see evolution toward much more decentralization, and maybe the decline of the nation state. But that would be longterm change caused by underlying social dynamics. I see no plausible way for a revolutionary movement to impose an AC blueprint.
|
|
#50
08-16-2007, 03:57 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: ACism in one country or need for a world revolution?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Seems to me that these kinds of actions would constitute the formation of a new state anyhow. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, exactly. Sorry I wasn't clearer. [ QUOTE ] aren't you just saying that any achievement of anarchy is impossible because of the regenerative power of the state? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. That, and you cannot destroy a state without creating a cohesive organization to do it, which would constitute a state. I believe the human animal is extremely adaptable, and probably an anarchist or anarcho-capitalist system might well be viable once it exists. I just see no plausible way of reaching that point. We can't get there from here. The state won't waste away, as old communists believed. Who knows, we might see evolution toward much more decentralization, and maybe the decline of the nation state. But that would be longterm change caused by underlying social dynamics. I see no plausible way for a revolutionary movement to impose an AC blueprint. [/ QUOTE ] Cohesive organization = involuntary, violent, coercion?? I do agree with you that ACism will be the result of a change in underlying social dynamics, and achieving it in one fell swoop through revolution is very unlikely. I don't think too many ACist advocate this strategy anyway.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
