Insanity rating pls: 2/4 AA fold

[ChrisV]

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so you think proper strategy for him would be to go all-in with top pair but play a small pot with top boat?

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Cmon dude, this has nothing to do with pot size. It has to do with extracting value from an opponent who is just about guaranteed to have very little. That's the problem you face with both KK and AK (and AA), it's just that with AK/AA it's complicated by the fact that every free card you dish out very likely carries a 1/20 chance of you losing the pot and the rest of your stack. With KK you don't have that problem, the more free cards the better.

[ChrisV]

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Surely 6 AKs - 2 aces and 3 kings, no?

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Yeah, my bad.

[soah]

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Cmon dude, this has nothing to do with pot size. It has to do with extracting value from an opponent who is just about guaranteed to have very little.

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so he'd go all-in on the turn with AK for value but there's no value going all-in with essentially the nuts?

a naked king is extremely unlikely for you so your range is basically the same regardless of whether he has KK or AK so there's no possible way you can argue that he would/should play a bigger pot with the bluffcatcher than with the nuts

[ChrisV]

I'm saying he should turn raise AK to prevent a free card, not for value. What I said originally was:

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The main argument against these hands, though, is the flat call on the turn. Calling the turn and betting the river has zero advantages compared to checkraising the turn. It's very unlikely I am calling further bets with a pair lower than kings (maybe QQ/JJ, but probably not), so all it achieves is giving me a free card to spike a set if I have a small-mid pair.

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imo it's hugely unlikely I'm either calling any decent size bet or firing a second bluff at this board, so there's no upside for him in allowing another free card.

[SEABEAST]

you really have to call here as you sort of have QQ/JJ faceup on the table so he can be either valuebetting worse or bluffing to fold you out.

also if you think his threebetting range is as small as JJ+, AK in the first place, then you should fourbet preflop always no? calling is a nice way to get money out of other random hands when he has a wider range, but if he is only threebetting very strong hands then you should just try and get it in preflop every time imo.

[Hattifnatt]

oh no,

I read your reasoning and understand your thinking, but this is a very trivial call or raise.

also, focus on making big folds like this is only hurting your game since it is much better to focus on other things. I have often made the same mistake.

[winningfish]

Way too passive on flop/turn.

[soah]

moving all-in solely to protect against a two-outer is a pretty [censored] terrible play

if he's so concerned with free cards, why is he checking twice? your line of thought for him is completely inconsistent. I mean, you say he's checking the flop either to slowplay, or for pot control... then you think he should move all-in? where'd the pot control go? you say he can't have air once he checks the flop... and we beat most of his range... so why aren't we betting? he's never folding, and we crush his range...

on the flop you beat like 80% of his range, you have virtually the best possible hand out of your range, there's not much money left relative to the size of the pot... folding without showdown against a competent player under these conditions is just a huge fundamental leak

[J_C]

I'm amazed this has generated much debate. If I was put in this situation I would be using the precious seconds available to debate whether I would also be sticking in the small amount I had left after the call (about 50-60ish?), which he would surely have to call with AK. He might even call with QQ or JJ.

Yes, of course, he could have KK. But nothing like often enough to fold here IMO.

[elklonko]

Argh... my eyes!!!